How Race to Stupid Went from Fumble to Fortune

Jason Hsieh (00:00)
Welcome back to another episode of Toy Business Unboxed podcast. Today’s guests, please meet Cassie and Marie, the creative mind behind Race to Stupid, a hilarious trivia game that went from family fun to market reality. In this episode, they are going to bring us behind the scenes from the spark of the idea to the challenge of launching and marketing their own games as indie creators. We’ll be talking about lessons and reminders of how growing old doesn’t mean growing up.

And thank you so much for both of you to join today’s episode and share your journey within the toys and game industry.

Marie Eckl (00:33)
Thanks for having us.

Jason Hsieh (00:34)
Yeah, so first of all, if you can first start out, either one of you can start out by sharing with our listener, where did the idea for the initial game came from?

Cathy Tenaglia (00:43)
We were playing a really bad trivia game with some family at Christmas time and we didn’t know any of the answers and Marie and I both kind of we think we’re pretty good trivia people. We know lots of useless facts and we didn’t know any of them and neither did anybody else we were playing with and the game was you should know that and you started with a certain amount of points and then you got deducted depending on the question and literally

This is like racing to Stupid because we didn’t know anything. Like we were basically, it was going to zero first because we weren’t getting anything. And then we’re like, this game isn’t great. How can we make a better game essentially? That’s really a trivia game that’s fun is really how it all started from that moment is really what the starting.

Jason Hsieh (01:28)
Yeah, and I think your game have a very different kind of rule if you can explain how Race to Stupid as a game actually work. So that kind of kind of add to the point of how your game is very different than other trivia game in the market.

Marie Eckl (01:41)
Yeah, what makes it fun is that if you know the answer to the trivia question, you’re going earn a point. But you’re also going to have with a Stupid answer to that same trivia question. Whoever has the best Stupid answer gets two points. So you can be smart and Stupid and earn three points. could actually not know any of the answers, the real answers, and you could still win the game. So it adds a little creativity to the trivia game.

Jason Hsieh (02:01)
Hmm, for sure. I think that’s definitely an interesting twist. Personally, I’m horrible at trivia games wasn’t growing up in the so a lot of the American culture related questions, I have no idea. So that’s a little bit harder for me. So I like the game rule and that makes it more fair for people that are not growing up in the US culture.

Cathy Tenaglia (02:21)
There’s a question we always do this as a simple one is what does a Statue of Liberty wear on her feet? So it’s like you might not have seen the Statue of Liberty, maybe you have, but you could guess what is she wearing on her feet? And they can always come up with something silly that she’s wearing on her feet. And people come up with all kinds of silly, crazy answers to that.

Jason Hsieh (02:37)
Yeah, that’s definitely a very fun question. And also going back to your origin story, think, can you also kind of share how you two first met and also decided to start this company together?

Marie Eckl (02:49)
Yeah, so we met from basically day one because we’re sisters. So we grew up together playing games. Everything from playing card games with our grandmother to all your traditional board games, Monopoly, Payday, Bonkers is one that we always still actually play together. So yeah, so we grew up playing playing games and, you know, and having that kind of instilled that, you know, just even though you’re getting older, games are fun and having fun is important. So that’s kind of where it all comes from.

Jason Hsieh (03:15)
I see, see. Yeah, personally, I also run a family-owned business because it’s run by me and my sister. So the question I have is how do both of you divide the work when you are running the businesses currently?

Cathy Tenaglia (03:26)
It kind of happened organically away. We never really said like you’re going to do this and I’m going to do this. It’s more we play to our strengths, I come up with big ideas and then Marie’s one who kind of then fact checks me or kind of reigns it in and then figures out the details. So it just kind of happened that way. Like just with Race to Stupid. I would come up with questions. She would fact check them. You know, I would come up with how we’re actually going to build a business.

but then she would do like the technical creativity part of it, like the vision of it. So it just kind of balances out of how we did that really. And that’s just how we’ve been working since then.

Jason Hsieh (03:58)
I see, see, I see. Anything else you want to add?

Marie Eckl (04:02)
No, I mean, I think that’s the big thing. know, like I, you know, we have we have regular day jobs as well. So this isn’t our full time job. you know, Kathy’s a landscape designer. So when it came to like designing the box and how’s everything going to fit together? I mean, that was that was perfect for Kathy. So, yeah, it’s just definitely playing to our strengths for sure.

Jason Hsieh (04:20)
I see. And what was it like turning your first idea into a finished product, you can compare your journey so far? And I know you have developed so many different products over the years as well.

Marie Eckl (04:32)
I mean, getting to see that, you know, the first game, you know, starting out where we were basically using note cards and, you know, coming up with our own little demo and that type of thing. But actually opening that first box was, it was pretty incredible actually, knowing that we did this, like we created this, we figured out how to get it done, which we had no idea, you know, it was contacting, manufacturers and things to figure out how to even make it. It was a,

pretty incredible feeling every time you get that first box gets delivered.

Cathy Tenaglia (04:59)
one thing we didn’t realize that people will say like I can’t believe you actually took your idea. Like everybody’s like I have an idea but nobody actually follows through and we just for some harebrained reason like followed through with it and did it. We thought it would be easy for one thing so.

Jason Hsieh (05:13)
It’s definitely not as easy as people think. There’s a lot of steps involved. what would you say is the biggest challenge of starting this business from the ground up?

Marie Eckl (05:23)
Coming up with the ideas and the games and how we can make it more fun. That’s the fun part it really is the marketing and how to get it out there and you know how to do all that the businessy side of it and the marketing side of things is really the challenge Yeah

Jason Hsieh (05:38)
I see, I see, I see.

Cathy Tenaglia (05:40)
And I have the business end, the process of stuff and figuring out the trademark and those things were kind of easy in comparison. And we thought, you just build a website and people will find you. It’s like, that wasn’t.

Jason Hsieh (05:53)
That wasn’t the case. Yeah.

Cathy Tenaglia (05:55)
Not how it was. that’s, you know, that was like, parts are easy. I’ve really, the marketing is the toughest part of all of it because like that we’re creative brains and the marketing is just a different avenue and just all the different platforms out there where you need to be. And those things, just, that’s extremely challenging of something like we don’t have the time to delve into ourselves. I think it’s part of it.

Jason Hsieh (06:16)
I see, I see, I see. And can we also, can you also kind of talk about all the other game that you’re currently also working on? I know there’s a few more products on the pipeline as well. If one of you have an actual example of the product, you can also feel free to show the product on camera as well.

Cathy Tenaglia (06:31)
So Christmas is coming. This was our fourth game we created. So it’s a tree decorating game. So it’s really fun for all ages. Our Bay of the Christmas tree. And you’re trying to decorate it for the holidays. And then there’s yetis and nice elves, naughty elves that come with you as you go along. It plays in 10 to 15 minutes, depending on how many people are playing and how quickly it goes. But super family friendly. So this is a game.

people play with their grandparents down to kids can take it and play with themselves. yeah, this is Christmas is coming. We also have pirate blast, which we’re actually in the middle of a reprint. This was our third game, our second game we don’t really talk about because it’s not, it was just okay.

Everybody’s in a pirate ship or you’re trying to sink each other ships with cannonball cards. And then there’s again, monkeys can take handle of your ship from on other people ships. Other kind of cards make it fun, you know, help either sink you quicker or help keep you afloat. So again, this is again another game we have adults. We’ve had a group of guys who like we play this game for three hours trying to sink each other because it’s a bit of strategy. It’s a little bit of luck how your cards come out. It’s super fun for all ages as well.

And like this, our dad’s in his 80s and he’ll play this with us because it’s easy and simple to learn. then Toots and Poops, I don’t have a demo box handy. I don’t know where got to, but that’s one we’re actually just sent to manufacturers. And that’ll be out this dice rolling game called Toots and Poops, where you’re trying to earn food points based on the number of Toots or poops associated with that food card. The fun dice rolling game that everybody makes fun of.

Jason Hsieh (07:44)
I see.

Cathy Tenaglia (08:04)
farting and pooping and it’s really cute and yeah, that’ll be out this fall.

Jason Hsieh (08:09)
I see. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all the different games. what is the publishing frequency that you’re trying to aim for? How many games are you trying to publish each year?

Cathy Tenaglia (08:19)
We try to do one a year, just because when we go to big game conventions, we’re starting to get a follow-up. So they’re kind of like, what do you have now? We like, we love Pirate Blast. We like this game. What else is coming? So we kind of feel like a little bit of a need to every year, which is very challenging to do the play testing, get it right, So it can be challenging right now.

It’s been little over a year since we started Toots and Poops. think it was probably last April we had the name and then worked through it and then finalized it.

Jason Hsieh (08:49)
I see, I see, What are some of the major characteristics that you feel like make your game stand out in the crowded market?

Marie Eckl (08:57)
Go for it, Cath

Cathy Tenaglia (08:58)
What we like to say is our name is Race to Stupid, that game alone, that name, which we only intended. We didn’t think we’d have several games at this point. We were just going to do one game and that was kind all we had thought about. So the name caused people in when they see Race to Stupid. that’s, people were like, wait, I have to pick up this box. I have to see what this is about. I can say it to anybody and everybody cracks a smile.

So I think good names is one key factor. Okay. then just starting to know our game that they are fun. They’re easy to play. we go to game convention, they’re super heavy strategy. And sometimes people are like, I just want something that’s fun and easy. It’s still, you know, so I think that’s too weak when we tell people like it’s one page instructions, like you don’t have, there’s not a big setup that people really resonate with that because they don’t have time to sit and play.

these large games and that’s the other thing our games are quick and easy so they’re repeatable so you can play a couple times and then put it away. So I think that’s we have an advantage on that as well.

Jason Hsieh (09:58)
Yeah, it’s definitely kind of geared toward different type of audience. know just like you mentioned, some of the board game takes 30 minutes to learn and two hours to play. that’s a very different type of game compared to the one that you’re designing.

Cathy Tenaglia (10:11)
We’ll pick up a game and we’ll be like, let’s play this. And we’re like, OK, I’m already lost about the instructions. Or we’re just like, ⁓ OK, like, no, it doesn’t seem fun. So we’re very key on those issues. That’s been fun.

Marie Eckl (10:25)
yeah, I mean, that’s, if I can look at the directions, that’s the other thing too, that we’ve tried to make it very visual in the directions so that it’s not always, I mean, there’s reading obviously, but to try to make it fast to learn. So you can get in there and start playing, so.

Jason Hsieh (10:39)
Okay, yeah, that’s definitely very important as well. you mentioned some of the biggest challenge for you has been in ⁓ marketing. What kind of strategy have you tried when you are trying to get more brand awareness in marketing so far?

Cathy Tenaglia (10:52)
Facebook posts and boosting and things like And we talked to so many of associates in the same boat as us. It’s just such a struggle. even know where to start with that. So we get there as much as can at different game conventions. And that’s really where our marketing comes from the most. But again,

that to grow we need to get into other channels so that’s that’s yeah we didn’t really have a marketing plan we just knew we had a good game so…

Jason Hsieh (11:20)
definitely marketing is a tricky one and there’s a lot of different components involved to make it successful as well. And I’m also grateful for you guys to decide to partner with our team here at Toylaunch to help you with some of the marketing effort. And I’m positive that we’ll be generating some great results working alongside with both of you to scale the business as well. ⁓ talking back to the games,

Besides those couple ones that you talked about, what are other of the additional games that you’re currently working on in the pipeline? Any other one that you haven’t shared with the audience yet?

Marie Eckl (11:55)
We have a Halloween game that probably this year. It had kind of a start and a stop and then Toots and Poops just kind of took over because that ended up being a lot of fun. But yeah, I definitely see for sure a Halloween game. There’s potential for a zoo game, you know, an animal type game. yeah, there’s definitely more more in the works and then also adding on to Race to Stupid as far as more questions, expansions, type of thing, too. So.

Jason Hsieh (11:56)
Okay.

Cathy Tenaglia (11:57)
here.

Jason Hsieh (12:22)
I see, I see. And have you considered also partner with other designer and help them publish their game instead of like publishing your own idea as a business kind of a strategy?

Marie Eckl (12:32)
I think that’s something that we would love to do when it’s working with somebody and developing a game, I think is a fun thing. It’s that, again, too, we have to look to somebody else to help us market it and get it out there. But yeah, that’s definitely working with other designers or collaborating is always a fun thing.

Jason Hsieh (12:49)
Yeah, and the other question I’d like to ask, this is a common, I guess, decision point for a lot of the people, especially in the tabletop gaming industry, is to either go with self-publishing or try to pitch the idea to bigger publishers and hopefully they will take an idea around with it. In your journey building up this business, what makes you decide to go with a self-publishing route instead of just pitching idea to bigger publishers?

Cathy Tenaglia (13:10)
Well, we’ve kind of been doing both. have been pitching around. It’s come very close to a big box store and then purchasers change. so it kind of gives you the concept of like, know we have games that could be mass market, but it’s just that again, our time, you know, trying to pitch it, putting together, you know, the sizzle videos and things like that. Sometimes it’s like, that’s a challenge and then just getting in there. So we’re kind of not.

We haven’t said no to that. if definitely that comes out, we would be open to it. And we’ve been doing it small batch of games, so it’s manageable to be self-published at this point. And luckily there’s some great game convention around, like where we met you at Origins. You know, it’s great. There’s one in Philly called PAX Unplugged so getting to the big game is helped a lot of us move our product. So again, since we’re a little bit smaller batch and we’re in small retailers,

probably in 30 or 40 small, you know, boutique shops around. So we’ve kind of made some good strides, but we would definitely, if somebody, a Hasbro set or any of the other game comes in, like, Hey, we’re going to license you. And it’s a good deal. We would definitely do it. We have some friends that have done deals and then gotten their games back. So you hear kind of nightmare stories, but we would be definitely open to that. Just kind of doing it both ways.

If whatever one kind of breaks for us, I guess is one thing. that’s probably why I to partner with you is we know Amazon sales, then, you know, a big box store is going to look what you’re doing Amazon and know like, okay, they actually can get sales. So it’s one step towards that, too. It’s it’s, a package of that.

Jason Hsieh (14:46)
Yeah, that’s true. That’s definitely a lot involved. And just like you said, if you license to the bigger publishers, sometimes you don’t really get a lot of attention from them as well because they manage thousands of products and uses one out of a thousand products they manage. So the amount of individual attention you get as an indie kind of publisher is very, very low. So sometimes based on my experience, better just to focus on your own brand to make it grow instead.

instead of trying to hold for someone else, like taking care of the brand that you have spent so much time investing into.

Cathy Tenaglia (15:19)
Right, exactly. then sometimes the upfront cost that they’re giving you, like they’re, you know, they’ll pay you upfront for a certain amount. It’s not a whole lot sometimes. So you think of all your effort into it. So it is kind of weighing the pros and cons. But again, if somebody came to us and depending on what that looked like, you know, we would be open to it. But who knows?

Marie Eckl (15:38)
even too like with the Kickstarter, you know, a lot of people do really well with that. And that’s also a big it’s a big investment time wise and things too. So I feel like that’s a whole other world to explore and to be prepared for. And that’s a again, just like another venue or another avenue. But definitely takes a lot of time and energy to make that successful.

Jason Hsieh (16:00)
Have you tried a Kickstarter campaign so far with any of the products?

Cathy Tenaglia (16:03)
No, we thought about it and then in the end we’re like, where’s the effort to get that? And everybody’s like, you need a big mailing list and just other issues. We just decided not to. And again, our games are easy. So it’s like, you know, we’re not, some of these game companies have 50, you know, like it’s a $50 game. So they kind of need that money to get it rolling where we can kind of our money relatively quickly on some of our games.

And just again, it’s that time and effort when you have a full time job and, trying to do all that. It’s like, where do we put our effort? I guess is always Mike and like, where are my efforts best suited? And then we, in the end, we’re like Kickstarters

Jason Hsieh (16:41)
Yeah, I think I agree with your assessment based on our experience. ⁓ Kickstarter attracts kind of an opposite audience compared to Amazon. Amazon is more for mass markets, so family games usually work really well. But Kickstarter is kind of the opposite. The family games usually don’t work as well because the backer, are looking for complicated games that they want to spend two hours on the game that they invest like $100 on. So it’s a very different type of audience than those like…

parents or moms trying to just buy a game for their families.

Cathy Tenaglia (17:11)
Yeah, and that’s more of our target audiences is the moms buying a game that they can play with their kids or the kids can play and it’s easy and they know it’s, you know, family friendly and that’s so that’s I think that’s partly by to like you said, it’s just not our not our niche in there with the.

Jason Hsieh (17:27)
with Kickstarter. I see. Yeah. I think you are kind of making the right decision there because based on our experience looking at lot of Kickstarter campaign, that’s not a lot of very successful family focused game on the platform. As you can see, the one that raised like a hundred thousand, half a million, they’re always like very, very heavy games usually that get a lot of traction. Obviously there’s always going to be exception, but…

and the majority of the successful campaigns tend to be more leaning towards the higher priced items or higher priced games.

Cathy Tenaglia (17:59)
Right, or there are companies too that already have a pretty good following and then they kickstarted as well. that’s, you know, people have approached us like, we help you on your Kickstarter. But it’s like, you’re still like, it’s still a lot of effort. And then they take their cut and it’s like, just, it whittles down your margin of even more so.

Jason Hsieh (18:15)
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. That’s true. So looking ahead,

Do you have anything else to add to the Kickstarter conversation?

Marie Eckl (18:23)
No, no, I just think, yeah, I think for us, it’s that we definitely figured out more where we fit as far as, you know, yeah, we’re not we’re not going to appeal to the Dungeons and Dragons crowd necessarily, but we’re going to be fun games that they can play in between. And so, yeah, it is definitely more like Amazon related, trying to, you know, getting into the game stores, that type of thing.

Jason Hsieh (18:42)
I see, see, I see. And also looking ahead in the future in the next three to five years, what is on the horizon? What was the goal for the company heading in the future?

Cathy Tenaglia (18:52)
That’s a good question. Sometimes we don’t think ahead. know, we sometimes have these just short sightedness. one part of it is to kind of get things rolling and get things moving. would like the big goal is to like get into a target of Barnes and Noble of, know, at least some of our games is for sure the long term goal. Again, we’ve made some like we had got Race to Stupid in books a million.

So it’s like we make little kind of headway. So I think we have definitely the potential to be a mass market game. So it’s just getting that right connection and getting sales. But I think that long term is like that. Yeah, we want to be in a big brick and mortar and move a lot of games and then build a brand of our fun, easy playing games is really the big goal.

Marie Eckl (19:33)
Yeah, keep coming up with good games that we’re proud of, that we get excited when people come back and tell us how much they enjoy playing them. And then, yeah, getting to the point where more and more people get to buy our games because they’re, more out there for them, you know, in the public, in the stores, you know, that type of thing. They’re seeing them on Amazon, which is going to be a big help. So.

Jason Hsieh (19:52)
Yeah, I see. see. see. So as well kind of wrapping up today’s interview here, if you if both of you have something to share with just one piece of advice with someone that’s getting started within the toys and game industry, what would that be?

Cathy Tenaglia (20:04)
this was the hardest question that I was thinking about. And really what it comes down to is we just did it started out blindly, but the mentors we’ve met along the way or peers and industry is really, I think, where I’ve learned the most. And just having connections that somebody you can call and ask questions to. And we have several mentors kind of in different levels. ⁓ I took a course kind of in a way.

It was called the Toy Coach.

and it filled in gaps that things that and I kind of like not take the whole course. I’m like, I just really want to learn how to pitch or whatever. Um, but it filled in some gaps and things that it helped reassure what I did know and then things I didn’t know. So she’s been a great mentor. then along the line, like we met Dave from Taco, Cat, Goat, Cheese and I’ve had a conversation with him. We were looking for a distributor for a project.

I asked him like, Hey, who do you use? so, and he’s helpful, you know, if needed, can email him in and then other just peers that either people who play a lot of games, like we have one guy that we go to for, is there a game like this? It’s like, he has a Rolodex in his head and we’ll ask him. just like having.

Marie Eckl (21:10)
in the industry.

Jason Hsieh (21:11)
Yeah.

Cathy Tenaglia (21:12)
Like, it is the key and like same thing like, what shows are you doing? Which ones work? Which ones don’t? You know, I did this and you know, so really finding that peer group and mentors is I think the biggest key to getting in break, especially breaking into the industry because we literally didn’t know anything about the game industry. Like we just went in blindly, which was probably smart on our end because we might not have done it, but we’re having so much fun doing it and want to keep doing it and I think having those peers that are encouraging and helpful and just can help guide you is invaluable.

Jason Hsieh (21:45)
I see. How about you Marie,

Marie Eckl (21:46)
I mean, it’s just that sometimes it’s not Like not being afraid to ask someone who’s doing it. How did you do it? And you know what trying to ask just asking for help I think that’s really a big part of it And yeah, we’ve met some really great people and you know even saying hey do it We got a demo here. Like it’s just you know note cards at this point You want to sit down and play with us? you and that’s just been really fun. It’s fun

And then too meeting these people because everybody has their own story and that’s been that’s been pretty incredible. So, yeah.

Jason Hsieh (22:17)
Yeah, I think I agree with my impression of the toys and game industry. Most people are very friendly in the industry. They are very open and willing to share and help each other. That’s a little bit different than maybe other industries that you don’t really talk to your competitor. You’re supposed to keep everything in secret. But I think the toys and game industry is fairly open and everyone that I met throughout the years has been very helpful to one another.

I’m also very grateful that I’m part of the industry and can contribute to the industry as well.

Cathy Tenaglia (22:47)
Yeah, absolutely.

Marie Eckl (22:48)
Yeah, that’s yeah, you may be next to in a booth at a big gaming convention, but you don’t look at it like they’re your competition. It’s yeah, it’s definitely a different feel. It’s nice.

Jason Hsieh (22:57)
Yeah. So for our listener and audiences that want to learn more about you and your companies online, where is the best place for people to find you?

Cathy Tenaglia (23:05)
racetostupid.com is our website and that’s pretty much our same moniker for Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Yeah, racetostupid.com is where we’re at. And you can email us at fun@racetostupid.com too as well.

Jason Hsieh (23:18)
Okay, perfect. I’ll put that in the show note. Thank you so much for both of you time today to join our podcast and show your journey and your story behind your businesses.

Cathy Tenaglia (23:27)
Thank you.

Marie Eckl (23:28)
Thank you so much.

Jason Hsieh (23:29)
And thank you for our audience for tuning in to this episode of Toy Business Unboxed. We hope you have enjoyed today’s conversation and find it insightful and inspiring. If you like what you have heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate your support and would love it if you can leave us a review and share the podcast with your friend and colleague. For more resources, tips, and the latest update within the toys end game industry, visit our website at toy-launch.com.

Join the conversation and connect with us on social media using #ToyBusinessUnboxed. We’d love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joy to toys. This is Jason Hsieh, signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone.