Welcome to this episode of the Toy Business Unboxed Podcast, where Jason sits down with Daniel Lopez, co-founder of Kawaii Lab Games. Daniel and his family turned a shared love of card games into a fast-moving publishing business, launching six games in under six months. His background running an Amazon storefront for six years gave the family a head start most new toy brands do not have. In this conversation, Daniel breaks down how Kawaii Lab Games keeps every product at a $9.99 price point, why the team moved away from affiliates toward UGC creators, and what he learned pitching at Toy Fair and GAMA. It is a real look at what it takes to build a toy brand from the ground up, fast.
#199: From Family Hobby to 6 Games in Under 6 Months – Toy Business Unboxed
Episode Highlight
- 00:42 Meet Daniel of Kawaii Lab
- 01:23 Why the family started publishing
- 02:38 Six games launched since January
- 05:42 Keeping every game at $9.99
- 06:59 Shrinking Carrot Boom’s box size
- 10:16 Betting on UGC over affiliates
- 15:08 Skipping macro influencers for reach
- 19:06 Toy Fair versus GAMA takeaways
- 26:03 Balancing FBA inventory and cash
- 29:39 Daniel’s advice for new founders
A Family Business Built on Amazon Experience and a Shared Love of Card Games
Daniel didn’t start from nothing. He’d run his own Amazon storefront for six years, and his dad and cousin had been running their own businesses since Daniel was young. The family loved card games but kept noticing the ones they bought had rules too long and complicated for casual game nights. Since Daniel knew Amazon SEO and storefront management, and his dad could draw in a distinct Kawaii style, the family realized they had everything in-house to build their own brand.
Six Games in Under Six Months
Kawaii Lab Games officially launched in January 2026, after brainstorming and testing ideas the year before. In roughly four to five months, the team released six games, starting with Carrot Boom and most recently 1-2-3 Monkey Flip. Daniel credits the pace to doing everything in-house: his dad handles artwork, his cousin handles graphic design, and they use Photoshop and Illustrator themselves instead of waiting on outside artists. Each new game builds on a well-known mechanic, whether pure luck, set collection, or deduction, updated to be more visually engaging.
Why Every Game Sticks to a $9.99 Price Point
Every product holds to a $9.99 MSRP, even Cruising Duck Mystery, which includes a notepad and envelope. Daniel says the goal is keeping the price low enough that people don’t have to think twice, especially casual buyers whose last card game was Uno a decade ago. Every box includes a QR code linking to a how-to-play video so rules never feel intimidating. Daniel points to Monopoly as an example of a game whose length scares people away from board games entirely, the exact opposite of what Kawaii Lab Games wants.
Shrinking Carrot Boom From a Big Box to a Travel-Size Hit
Carrot Boom, the brand’s first game, took five to six months to go from concept to shelf, longer than any game since. The original version was a bigger box selling for $15 to $20, well above the brand’s target. Daniel and his family realized the same cards fit into a travel-size box about three times smaller, cutting costs and matching how customers actually used it: bringing it on trips and to hotels with their kids. Daniel says the bigger box was about ego, while the smaller one is about making the game easy to carry and easy to buy.
Moving From Affiliates to UGC Creators on TikTok
Daniel calls TikTok underappreciated, despite its early reputation as an app for dancing teens back when it was Musical.ly. Kawaii Lab Games initially worked with affiliates, but paying commission on top of ad spend cut too deeply into margins on a $9.99 product. The team shifted to UGC creators instead, paying a flat fee per video (roughly $60 to $500 depending on experience) plus ad rights, testing individual creators rather than monthly retainers. Daniel expects that once the brand is established, affiliates and influencers will start reaching out to them instead.
Choosing Micro and Mid-Tier Influencers Over Macro Names
Macro influencers were pricing single Instagram posts at $10,000 to $15,000, numbers that don’t work for a $9.99 product with thin margins. Instead, Kawaii Lab Games works with micro and mid-tier influencers like Douglas and Grant, creators already respected in the card and board game space. Grant, a familiar face at GAMA, Origins, and Gen Con, brings comedic energy that fits the brand’s playful tone. Daniel’s takeaway: a smaller, targeted influencer can produce better content and reach the right audience, while a bigger name may just be reaching people who only casually care about card games. Reach without relevance wastes money.
Toy Fair vs. GAMA: Picking the Right Trade Show for a Card Game Brand
Kawaii Lab Games attended its first two trade shows this year, Toy Fair in New York and GAMA. Daniel found GAMA more valuable for a card and board game brand specifically, since retailers there placed real orders and the show is built around the category, while Toy Fair treats card games as a small niche. Toy Fair still helped with meeting larger distributors; the team even showed their games to a Walmart buyer who loved them but said the brand needed a few more months in the market first. Daniel felt Toy Fair was more corporate overall, especially near the big established brands, while the new-exhibitor section downstairs had more of the energy he associates with starting a toy company. His advice: if you can only pick one B2B show, GAMA is likely the better fit.
What’s Ahead: Localization, Collectible Figures, and Retail Shelves
Looking five years out, Daniel wants a much bigger catalog while staying rooted in card games. He’s open to eventually adding a compact board game in the style of Happy Little Dinosaurs, keeping the same portable footprint. The team is already talking with a supplier about localizing into Spanish and Guarani for Mexico and Chile, with plans to expand into Europe later. Since Daniel and his cousin both know 3D modeling and animation, they also want to turn the brand’s characters into physical collectible figures, possibly in a mystery-box format. The long-term goal is shelf space at retailers like Target, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble.
Advice for Newcomers in the Toy and Game Industry
Daniel’s biggest advice: just start. People spend too much time worrying whether an idea is silly or will work, and that hesitation is what keeps good ideas from happening. He compares it to learning to ride a bike, where you fall a few times before it clicks, and says the biggest regret people carry is not trying, rather than trying and failing. He also encourages having a real plan rather than acting on blind faith, and tuning out negativity from people who haven’t built what they’re trying to build. For Daniel, staying consistent and getting out of your comfort zone matters more than getting it right on the first try.
Conclusion
Kawaii Lab Games shows what a small, family-run team can accomplish by combining real Amazon experience with in-house art and design talent, launching six games in under six months while keeping every product at $9.99 and testing new ways to reach customers on TikTok. Their story is also a reminder that growth takes patience, from choosing the right trade shows to finding creators who actually fit the brand. As Kawaii Lab Games looks toward localization, new product categories, and retail shelves, Daniel’s approach stays the same: start, learn from what doesn’t work, and stay consistent.
Connect with Daniel Lopez
If you’re interested in learning more about Kawaii Lab Games or connecting with Daniel Lopez you can reach out through the following channels:
- Website: Visit Kawaii Lab Games’ official website for the latest news, game updates, and more
- Instagram: Follow Kawaii Lab Games on Instagram for visual updates, game previews, and more links to their socials.
- Facebook: Follow Kawaii Lab Games on Facebook for updates, discussions, and behind-the-scenes content.
- TikTok: Follow Kawaii Lab Games on TikTok for clips, highlights, and behind-the-scenes content.
Transript
Jason Hsieh (00:42)
Welcome back to another episode of toy business Unboxed podcast. I’m your host Jason Shea. Today’s guest is Daniel, the co-founder of Kawaii Lab Games. Daniel and his family launched the line of like Kawaii style car games and went straight to Amazon and start building their brand out. And I think over his own journey, there’s a lot of insight and strategy that he learned over the years.
That he can definitely share with our audience and for all of us to learn from his experience as well. So thank you, Daniel, for joining us on the podcast today.
Daniel Lopez (01:13)
Hey Jason. How are you, man?
Jason Hsieh (01:14)
I’m doing good. So first take us back to the very beginning. What made you and your family decide to start a publishing company to begin with?
Daniel Lopez (01:23)
Of course. So beginning, I would say is my dad and cousin. They’ve always ran their own businesses ever since I was young. It
Jason Hsieh (01:29)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (01:30)
Kind of inspire me to do the same and I have my own Amazon storefront and everything for the past six years now.
Jason Hsieh (01:35)
Okay. Okay.
Daniel Lopez (01:37)
But we’ve always liked playing card games and the products we sell are fun, but gets kind of boring. So
Jason Hsieh (01:43)
I see.
Daniel Lopez (01:43)
We’re like, we already know how to do graphic design listings, SEO. We know everything how to run on Amazon.
On storefront. So it’s like,
Jason Hsieh (01:51)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (01:51)
We’re already played card games. We’re really like played board games. And unfortunately, some card games that we try playing, the rules are crazy long, family and friends come over and they’re like, what is this? They get bored. They’re like,
Jason Hsieh (02:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (02:04)
All right, let’s try making something simple to learn, quick to play. Let’s just try.
Jason Hsieh (02:08)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (02:08)
And that’s how we started with Carat Boom. And then we just kept going one after the other. And it just so happens that my dad, he draws really good. He draws like Hawaii style.
And see what our games. So
Jason Hsieh (02:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (02:20)
It was perfect. We don’t have to hire an artist. We don’t have to hire a graphic designer. Everything’s in-house. More
Jason Hsieh (02:25)
I’m
Daniel Lopez (02:25)
Social media. And between us, we make sure the games work together and the rules make sense. And just loads of fun. It’s actually, it doesn’t feel like work. Just very, very, very fun to just start creating games. Of course.
Jason Hsieh (02:38)
What year did you started the brand and how many product have you launched since you started?
Daniel Lopez (02:43)
This is how we started the brand. We did start implementing and started brainstorming last year, but
The brand
Jason Hsieh (02:49)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (02:50)
Actually came out around like January of this year in 2026. So it’s
Jason Hsieh (02:54)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (02:55)
Roughly four or five months of just nonstop launching games. So far, this is our 6th game so far. 1-2-3 Monkey Flip. So six.
Jason Hsieh (03:03)
I was really quick for a sixth game in under six months. Yeah,
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (03:09)
Six, but
That’s what helps as I said, my dad does artwork, my cousin, does the graphic design and then between all of us, you know, Photoshop, Illustrator, we use like everything that in our disposal. So it makes things go a little bit quicker. We don’t have to wait until we get approval, get it back and revisions.
Jason Hsieh (03:21)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (03:27)
Just always working pretty much. It helps that we could do everything in-house compared to others
Jason Hsieh (03:33)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (03:34)
That unfortunately they have to
An artist and then look for like different artwork. It makes it much quicker.
Jason Hsieh (03:37)
Yeah, that delayed the whole process. Yeah. And can you also walk
Us through your play testing and also your like, how do you even come up with so many different game ideas of quickly?
Daniel Lopez (03:48)
Of course, of course, of
Course. At first, the ways that we made sure to tackle our games was a Carrot Boom It’s more pure luck, no strategy. So it’s very easy
Jason Hsieh (03:59)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (03:59)
For kids up to six years old to understand. We even had like four year olds play the game. Like we get reviews and the understanding perfectly. So
Jason Hsieh (04:07)
Okay
Daniel Lopez (04:08)
Carrot Boom was more, no strategy, pure luck. And then Screaming Billy was more a base set collection game that you have to cut of each crops. And.
And then a deduction game with Cruising Duck Mystery. So each game has kind of like a game mechanic that is like a famous game mechanic that we’ve done like since the 1900s whenever we just got a 52 playing deck of cards and like there’s games. So we always go for like, what is a game mechanic and let’s spice it up. Let’s make it more exciting, more fun, different. How can we stand out? So yeah,
Jason Hsieh (04:36)
Okay. I see.
Daniel Lopez (04:40)
And that’s how we kind of tackle it. Lately we’ve been trying to do more party games. So that’s again,
Jason Hsieh (04:45)
Mm.
Daniel Lopez (04:46)
Like how one
To going to be and then another game that we’re going to be launching well in a week or so it’s called Battle Match so again a party game so we’re
Jason Hsieh (04:53)
Mmm. So fast.
Daniel Lopez (04:54)
Trying to implement more because we’ve noticed that in order to tackle this market you have to make noise not as like a game that you scream but make noise as you got to cut through the noise of social media like you got to grab people’s attentions unfortunately attention
Jason Hsieh (05:07)
Yeah, attention, yes.
Daniel Lopez (05:10)
Spans has declined quite a bit throughout the years but
Jason Hsieh (05:13)
Yes, of course.
Daniel Lopez (05:14)
It’s social media just makes things
People want it quicker. So we are trying to implement more games that are very easy and visually appealing and easy to learn and just if I watch two to three seconds I understand the concept of the game is what we’re trying to gravitate towards.
Jason Hsieh (05:29)
I see. And also in the pre-interview, you talk about how you are trying to also keep the brand or the car kind of in the similar dimension, similar price
Daniel Lopez (05:37)
100%.
Jason Hsieh (05:38)
Points. Can you kind of also talk, walk us through some of those business decisions that your team made?
Daniel Lopez (05:42)
Yeah, of course. We are trying to we for sure made sure to have a 9.99 MSRP at all times for all our games. Even Cruising
Jason Hsieh (05:49)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (05:51)
Duck Mystery that’s right here. It has
Jason Hsieh (05:53)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (05:54)
A notepad. It has an envelope, but it’s much more cards. But we still have that MSRP because we just want to
Jason Hsieh (06:00)
Hmm.
Daniel Lopez (06:01)
Make it easily accessible and for family and friends to not really think about it. When a game’s 20 bucks, when a game’s 40 bucks, you start thinking, do I really want to pay for it?
What if I don’t like it? We try
Jason Hsieh (06:12)
And
Daniel Lopez (06:13)
To make it accessible. We’re trying to implement and merge the gamers that like games, but also the people that don’t really like games. And the last game they played was Uno like 10 years ago. So we’re trying to bring them together because all our games,
Jason Hsieh (06:23)
Yeah, okay. Together, okay.
Daniel Lopez (06:29)
We have how to play videos and each of our QR codes are rules. So we make it super, super easy. We just want people to see games are fun. Card games aren’t just for kids or for
Something you did years ago. Monopoly, I feel like, made everybody scared of board games, to be honest, because they’re like, I don’t have four hours. So all our games are quick to play. So
Jason Hsieh (06:48)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (06:49)
And they’re very fun. Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (06:51)
I see, see, I see. And for your first game, how long does it take you from idea to like having the product on the shelf and available for purchase?
Daniel Lopez (06:59)
Of
Course, first game, Carrot Boom, I would want to say maybe, like for the last concept that we have of Carrot Boom, I want to say roughly maybe five, six months, because the first ever…
Jason Hsieh (07:11)
Awesome, still extremely fast. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (07:13)
Yeah, it took
Jason Hsieh (07:13)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (07:15)
A little bit longer because Carrot Boom, originally was a much bigger box and
Unfortunately we sold it, I believe it was like 20 or 15 MSRP, it was higher than the 9.99 MSRP.
Jason Hsieh (07:25)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (07:26)
That’s when we learned that we could still fit the whole game in a smaller travel size friendly box size. That’s when we
Jason Hsieh (07:33)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (07:34)
Learned quickly, hey, the price costs a lot more for us. It costs a lot more for the end consumer. And at end of the day, they just want to
Make sure the game’s fun and that they could take it anywhere. So that’s
Jason Hsieh (07:44)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (07:45)
Why we kind of like went down of size. Like I think the big size is more for like the owner of like the ego. Like, I got a big game box. Look at me. So we
Jason Hsieh (07:54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (07:56)
Try to making it cutting down the cost for the end consumer. But
Jason Hsieh (08:00)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (08:00)
As well, just making like a very nice portable travel size friendly box. Like you could literally put this in your purse, your bag, backpack. A lot of people we’ve
Spoke with. They also take card games to like when they go to hotel with their kids because they want to like have something like fun for them like a fun task. So having this type of box helps tremendously with that. We’ve noticed a lot of like big card game companies they’ve started going down in size as well for like their boxes.
Jason Hsieh (08:30)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (08:31)
But here’s for example like this is like original Carrot Boom.
Jason Hsieh (08:36)
Much
Bigger! much bigger than the new one, okay. Two times bigger, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (08:37)
Yeah, it’s much bigger than we even did
A Kickstarter like exclusive like a little graphics and everything
Jason Hsieh (08:47)
Okay, okay, okay.
Daniel Lopez (08:48)
So it’s much bigger and now same cards and everything now
Jason Hsieh (08:52)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (08:53)
This smaller size
Jason Hsieh (08:55)
Whoa, that’s a
Huge difference. That’s almost 3x bigger.
Daniel Lopez (08:59)
It’s 3x bigger. But again, it’s
More like, I feel like it’s the ego of a owner saying, look at me.
I have a huge box and everything like that.
But if you could fit it all into one and cut
Jason Hsieh (09:12)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (09:12)
The margins down, cut the cost down for the end consumer and everything, it helps a lot. So yeah,
Jason Hsieh (09:15)
Yeah, I see.
Daniel Lopez (09:18)
That’s how, that’s why it took a little bit for that first one. And that’s why it’s, a lot of trial and errors, but that’s like with anything becoming an entrepreneur, it’s just try an error. What doesn’t work? And you just learn from your mistakes. The bad thing
Jason Hsieh (09:29)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (09:30)
Is when you don’t learn from your mistakes and you just keep doing the same mistake over and over again. So we
Jason Hsieh (09:33)
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Daniel Lopez (09:36)
Learned quickly, okay, smaller boxes for
Sure, let’s make sure like all our games are like the same style. So when someone
Jason Hsieh (09:42)
In
Daniel Lopez (09:43)
Sees this box and the artwork and title and the character, they know that’s Kawaii Lab Games. Yep.
Jason Hsieh (09:48)
Yeah.
And I think one of the unique advantage that you have compared to other competitors is that you have a very strong, solid, almost like a digital marketing background with all the Amazon work you have done in the past. That’s pretty much digital marketing, right? And just on the platform specifically.
Daniel Lopez (10:00)
Right. Of course.
Jason Hsieh (10:03)
That is like a very unique skillset. Not everyone in the industry does have. That’s why they hire with like, they need help with like people, well, like us that actually specialize in that.
Daniel Lopez (10:15)
Great.
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (10:16)
And, but that’s a
Very unique skillset because also in the pre-interview talk about like, now you’re also exploring TikTok as well. Can you kind of share with our audience all the things you learned, what is working and not working for your brand? Because I know TikTok
Daniel Lopez (10:28)
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (10:28)
Could be very big for some blogging company as well.
Daniel Lopez (10:32)
Tiktok I think is very underappreciated even till this day. It’s grown like crazy. It used to be called Musically back in the day. Was just kids dancing and teenagers and that’s how people avoided it. Then Tiktok
Jason Hsieh (10:42)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (10:44)
Just became a whole different beast. But the way we’re trying to tackle TikTok, because it does help a lot of card games and board game companies. Again, our card games are $9.99 MSRP. So quickly we’ve been learning that in order to
Hire affiliates and then running ads on their posts. It’s just cutting down our margins too much. So
Jason Hsieh (11:03)
Margin yeah yeah
Daniel Lopez (11:05)
What we’re doing, it’s a different route. It’s more tackling going towards UGC creators. We don’t
Jason Hsieh (11:10)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (11:10)
Have to pay them commission. Just pay them upfront. Hey, this is X amount for the video and for the rights for us to post and run ads on that video. So that’s kind of like the route we’re going. Let’s hire UGC creators and then run ads on it on social media. But on top
Of that, we’re creating content as well ourselves. So
Jason Hsieh (11:31)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (11:31)
Like I mentioned earlier, we did about 30 minutes of footage yesterday. So now I’m like having to edit it, but that’s also a thing. Like we can make content here. We can edit it. We know how to use Photoshop Illustrator, do the artwork, the graphic design. So it helps a lot. Like you said, like having that background, because not everyone unfortunately has that background of running a business or of
Jason Hsieh (11:51)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (11:53)
Doing graphics and everything. And it does help. It does have its pros.
But that’s how we’re trying to tackle TikTok now. It’s UGC,
Jason Hsieh (12:00)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (12:00)
Not too much of affiliates. And it’ll come to a point that the brand’s going to grow so much, give it maybe six months or a year that it’s like very well established in the marketplace for Amazon TikTok. The affiliates will start contacting us rather than us trying to get affiliates. So that’s when
Jason Hsieh (12:11)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s the yeah, that’ll be nice.
Daniel Lopez (12:18)
We can move the commissions a bit more. Right now we have to pay more commissions cause we’re new, but once the
Jason Hsieh (12:24)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (12:25)
Brand is
Establish how we’re aiming it towards. Now it’s like affiliates contacting us and everything like that.
Jason Hsieh (12:32)
I see. If you
Don’t mind sharing, how do you negotiate with the influence or the creator on the UGC creation? it per video? Or is it, I’ll go create 10 and we’ll pay you a month? Or how do you usually do your negotiation?
Daniel Lopez (12:44)
So far that what we’ve done again, we’re very new for like even contacting you just say because before it was affiliates The products we used to sell on Amazon. We never had to run social media. We never had to do like content or anything It was just Amazon pure Amazon and it worked and it still
Jason Hsieh (12:59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (13:00)
Works. But this one card games, Nobody knows you so and there’s a lot of card games being released every year You have
Jason Hsieh (13:05)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (13:08)
To constantly remind the family or friends
That’s going to be purchasing the end consumer constantly hear the name constantly see the game like just always just being there.
So what we’re looking to do is there’s different platforms that help, thankfully, like contacting UGC creators. Each of the creators, they range in price. It could be all the way from 60 or a hundred dollars all the way through 500. So they vary tremendously depending on how like information they have on how to create UGC content, like how much experience they have
Jason Hsieh (13:41)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (13:42)
And their style and everything like that. If they have kids in
Video if they have their husband or their wife in the video. So it does change a lot the pricing, but we’re doing
Jason Hsieh (13:50)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (13:51)
Right now video per video, not really a monthly retainment. Like, Hey, we’ll pay you a thousand every month to make me five videos. We’re not doing that yet. It’s more
Jason Hsieh (13:59)
Not yet, okay.
Daniel Lopez (14:00)
Like we’re trying to test out creators to see who actually
Makes content that
Jason Hsieh (14:05)
You’re right.
Daniel Lopez (14:06)
Resonates with like what we stand for. And then we could kind of maybe negotiate like, Hey, can you make me X amount of videos per month? And then we just have influencers that
We do like. We’re doing the UGC Creator route, but we’re also doing the influencer route that will establish creators of card games and board games. We’ve worked
Jason Hsieh (14:23)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (14:24)
About three or four videos now of TikTok board games. He’s done videos for us and everybody respects him, like what he posts. And his
Jason Hsieh (14:30)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (14:31)
Name’s Douglas, he’s a great guy. Like once you see his style of videos, you know it’s him. So people feel comfortable like of his input. Also, we’ve worked with other influencers as well.
Worked with Grant, Grant write games. He’s awesome. You’ll always see him in GAMA, Origins, Gen con. He’s like such a bright light, good energy. And that’s kind of like our games. Like he is like, he’s a comedian as well as a stand up. So it’s perfect for our games. So it’s like, he’s like a very
Jason Hsieh (14:56)
Okay. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (14:59)
Funny, energetic guy. So he’s posted our videos as well, like the games that he’s played. Even passed by our booth at GAMA not so long ago. And
Jason Hsieh (15:07)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (15:08)
He was just playing the games.
And everything, he just loves it. You just see creators and influencers. We’re not really going macro influencers. I looked into macro influencers a month ago.
Jason Hsieh (15:18)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (15:18)
The prices are crazy for macro influencers. I’m talking about like maybe the millions of followers easily.
Jason Hsieh (15:21)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (15:26)
The prices I saw for just one post on Instagram, about $15,000. And for a small brand that’s…
Jason Hsieh (15:32)
That’s very high,
Yeah, for a small brand.
Daniel Lopez (15:35)
It’s… It’s very high
And I don’t know where they get the prices like I understand but at the same time for us we even tell them we’re a small brand but between like 10k to 15,000 we saw for like the big creators So what we have to do is look for the micro influencers or mid-tier influencers Rather
Jason Hsieh (15:54)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (15:55)
Than trying to just go for this That’s what people I think like when they’re new business owners they mess up if they
Try to get the big influencers, but no there’s still Influencers here that could even do sometimes even better quality content than bigger influencers It’s just the reach, the reach might
Jason Hsieh (16:09)
Yeah, yeah,
Daniel Lopez (16:11)
Not be there, but that’s why you got to run ads on it in order to get that reach from
Jason Hsieh (16:14)
Yeah, but even with a bigger reach doesn’t mean
You are reaching out to the right people. So you could be paying 15K,
Daniel Lopez (16:18)
100%. It’s true. It’s true.
Jason Hsieh (16:21)
But it’s reaching to the wrong audience and then you don’t get anything in return. So it’s kind of money wasted.
Daniel Lopez (16:26)
That’s very true.
And typically
Also those big influencers, do a lot of things. So maybe like playing card games is a little niche in their like people that they get followed. Maybe they follow
Jason Hsieh (16:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (16:38)
Him because like he plays basketball, but sometimes he plays card games. So it’s true. It’s
Jason Hsieh (16:40)
Yeah, or something else. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (16:44)
In beginning stages, you got to know exactly where it makes sense to spend your money. Because if not, you’ll burn out real quickly of the cash flow you have in order to invest into the business to make you grow.
Jason Hsieh (16:55)
Yes.
Daniel Lopez (16:55)
And then you’re stuck. And that’s how a
Jason Hsieh (16:57)
Yes.
Daniel Lopez (16:57)
Business is. You hear them in a year and then they’re gone. You’ve
Jason Hsieh (16:59)
Yeah, they’re gone, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (17:01)
Kind of got to be a little bit smart with it. We spend a good amount just with affiliates, just hitting them up and everything like that and sending free samples. But quickly we learned, okay, this might not be the route. Let’s try the UCG creators and the whole
Jason Hsieh (17:13)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (17:14)
Micro or mid influencers.
Jason Hsieh (17:16)
Yeah, I think on the right track, because you always want to test them all to see what kind of creative content actually resonate with the potential buyer first, before you pay like
Daniel Lopez (17:24)
Right.
Jason Hsieh (17:25)
More expensive influencer to create a content. Because they don’t know the brand as well as you do. So the more guideline
Daniel Lopez (17:30)
Percent.
Jason Hsieh (17:31)
And the more kind of direction you can give them, they will also make better content that can resonate with your potential audience. Instead of just creating a random video talking about, this is the game I try. It’s like, it’s not going to resonate very well. So.
Daniel Lopez (17:42)
It’s
Jason Hsieh (17:43)
Yeah. So I think
Daniel Lopez (17:44)
True. Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (17:45)
Your strategy does definitely make sense. And that’s actually a similar strategy we do for our client when we are helping them with kind of influencer outreach. We’re trying to reach out to influencer that doesn’t charge us $15,000, hopefully.
So yeah.
Daniel Lopez (17:58)
Yeah. No, when
I read those numbers, I was like, and it was the influencer, like back to back that set of prices around that range. Was like, I like, it’s too much.
Jason Hsieh (18:07)
Yeah, it’s very expensive because also
The margin and the mass for a board game or a toy company is really hard to make it work. If you take the $15,000 example, our profit per unit sold is maybe only $3. Right? So that means we need to sell 5,000 units to even break even on that post that we spent
Daniel Lopez (18:27)
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (18:27)
$15,000 For. So that number is really hard to make sense unless…
We’re selling hundred dollar board game or something. Then it’s a little bit easier to make
Daniel Lopez (18:36)
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (18:37)
It work. But since our board game usually is a lower ticket item, it’s also really hard for the mask to work.
Daniel Lopez (18:43)
It’s
100 % Everything. Yeah, everything inside is 100 % accurate.
Jason Hsieh (18:46)
Yeah. So I want to kind of talk about next is some of your experience yourself with some of the trade show, which is also very big in the industry. And you’ve been to a few different B2B show in the pre-interview
Daniel Lopez (18:55)
All right.
Jason Hsieh (18:57)
That you mentioned as well. Can you kind of share some of your experience at the trade shows, like something you
Daniel Lopez (19:01)
Yeah, of course.
Jason Hsieh (19:02)
Also recommend other people that’s kind of new to the trade show kind of landscape on scenes to look out for?
Daniel Lopez (19:06)
Yeah, of course. So in February, our first ever trade show was Toy Fair in New York. It’s
Jason Hsieh (19:11)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (19:12)
B2B, so business to business. And then we went to GAMA, again, B2B business to business. And the first B2C, business to consumer, is going to be next month in Origins in Ohio. So we don’t have experience for B2C yet. So in a few months, if we do this again, I’ll let you know how it went. But B2B,
Jason Hsieh (19:28)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (19:32)
It was pretty good.
We did what we saw, like this is like my kind of like feedback in my opinion. GAMA was way better.
I in my opinion, than Toy Fair, even though Toy Fair is more known and respected. But the thing is for our card games and board games, you got to understand GAMA is more towards card games and board games. Toy Fair is everything. Like every single toy that you could think of falls
Jason Hsieh (19:48)
How can you forget CS? Everything, yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (19:54)
Into it. And card games and board games are like a sub niche in the toy world. It’s just is what it is.
Jason Hsieh (19:58)
Yes, that’s correct. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (20:00)
So we got more feedback from GAMA, more interest in GAMA, a lot
Jason Hsieh (20:05)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (20:06)
Of
Retailers like that they have their own brick and mortar stores place a lot of orders in GAMA. The toy fair was
Jason Hsieh (20:11)
Mm.
Daniel Lopez (20:12)
Good to kind of reach those big distributors.
Jason Hsieh (20:16)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (20:17)
We even showcased our games to the buyer for Walmart and he
Jason Hsieh (20:21)
All that.
Daniel Lopez (20:22)
Was like right in front of our booth, someone else brought them and he is the one that makes sure like new card games and board games like get into shows for Walmart.
And he played our games, he loved them, he laughed. He just said, give it a few more like months, like six months, eight months in order to like actually be in the market a good amount. Cause it was only one month out when we went in February.
Jason Hsieh (20:41)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (20:43)
So it was still too new.
We still have contact with him. The connections you make in Toy Fair are very valuable and GAMA as well. But if you do have to pick one of the two and you’re a card game or board game company, I personally would say GAMA. Just
Jason Hsieh (20:58)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (20:58)
Personal experience of what worked for us. Again, if you’re a toy and it’s not just card games or board games, Toy Fair it’s very good as well.
The main thing I notice, it’s that whenever you go upstairs, it’s all more the Lego, the Hasbro, the spin master, the big name companies. So it’s overwhelming, but
Jason Hsieh (21:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The big company. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (21:18)
I did notice, and maybe it’s just me being biased, but everybody seems serious. And I know it’s more corporate, but it was, it was a
Jason Hsieh (21:25)
Yeah, you’re correct. Newer toy fair is more corporate.
Daniel Lopez (21:30)
It was
A bit more more seriousness and I was like we’re selling toys, we’re selling games, we’re fun. Like it’s so cool what we’re doing but I understand
Jason Hsieh (21:35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (21:41)
Like sometimes unfortunately some big business people just see numbers unfortunately or SKUs and barcodes. Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (21:45)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s also the people in those booths, they are not a business
Owner. It’s a job for them. So I get paid by the hours. They are just like swiping
Daniel Lopez (21:52)
100 % I agree
Jason Hsieh (21:55)
And kind of watching the time go. But as a business owner, we really care and really, really want to share our product from our heart. So that’s
A whole different level. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (22:03)
Ready? Yeah.
It’s true. It’s what I noticed quickly. The new section for Toy Fair Downstairs where it’s like all the first time exhibitors, I felt
Jason Hsieh (22:13)
Expedus, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (22:15)
More like there was more energy, more fun, like
Jason Hsieh (22:17)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (22:17)
More like, let me show this to the world.
Jason Hsieh (22:20)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (22:20)
So it’s like one of the things I noticed, it’s like, feel like it’s important to also remember that as like as you grow, like five years
Jason Hsieh (22:27)
That’s it, cool, yeah.
Daniel Lopez (22:28)
From now, Kawaii Lab Games, 10 years from now, you have to remember why you started. Your why is the most important thing. If you don’t have your why,
It’s like
Jason Hsieh (22:34)
What?
Daniel Lopez (22:35)
It’s meaningless at that point. You don’t wake up with that energy of start the day and make it grow because
Jason Hsieh (22:40)
Mm.
Daniel Lopez (22:41)
It’s fun. But it gets stressful quickly. It’s a lot of numbers You got to worry about like inventory storage so
Jason Hsieh (22:43)
It could be,
Daniel Lopez (22:47)
It could get really stressful quickly So if you don’t have a strong why, it’s not
Jason Hsieh (22:50)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (22:51)
Gonna work unfortunately So you have to actually like what you’re doing to make it last long? Because it’s gonna take
Jason Hsieh (22:58)
Of course.
Daniel Lopez (22:58)
A while like we’re very well aware like
And we’ve launched in January. We’re not thinking we’re gonna be in distributors and big retail stores like in four or five months out We just we really do know that we know we
Jason Hsieh (23:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (23:10)
Have the games for it We know we have the artwork for it, the style for it, the names for and everything like that It’s just a matter of time, but I think that’s the most important thing it’s time and just making sure you’re being consistent and consistency ends up winning.
Jason Hsieh (23:25)
Of
Course, of course, of course. So if you look ahead in the next few years, what does the next chapter will look like for Kawaii Lab Games? Why are you building to where are you adding more categories, different kind of verticals? And what are some of the future that you have in mind?
Daniel Lopez (23:41)
Of course, so for Kawaii Lab Games, I feel like in let’s say five years from now, just to put like a number out there, have a bigger catalog of more games. We always do want to stay like our bread and butter is card games, not board games per se.
Jason Hsieh (23:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (23:55)
Eventually, maybe start implementing maybe like a board game, but still try to keep that like compactness.
Jason Hsieh (24:02)
Hmm.
Daniel Lopez (24:03)
There’s a game we love from Unstable Unicorns called Happy Little Dinosaurs.
And they don’t have a mass board game. It’s just
Jason Hsieh (24:09)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (24:11)
Maybe like this long and then you fold it and everybody has their own little like sheet type of thing like of cardboard.
Jason Hsieh (24:16)
The tiny boy. Yeah, I played that game
Before. Yes. Yeah
Daniel Lopez (24:19)
We love that game. Maybe towards that route, like if we are going to do a board game type style, like a simple
Jason Hsieh (24:23)
Like a skimple book.
Daniel Lopez (24:25)
Board game, but in five years, a bigger catalog, having localization in Spanish, like in Guarani,
Jason Hsieh (24:31)
Hmm.
Daniel Lopez (24:32)
Or in talks with a supplier over in Mexico and Chile. So we’re already in talks with that. Eventually
Jason Hsieh (24:36)
Okay, okay, Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (24:37)
Have it in Europe, because we have connections over there as well, like people were talking to.
Jason Hsieh (24:41)
You
Daniel Lopez (24:42)
So localization, the TikTok shop obviously running, well,
TikTok is still alive, but still, TikTok should have like, still running and everything like that, more catalogs.
Jason Hsieh (24:47)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (24:52)
We do eventually, because my cousin and I, know 3D, we learned how to do like 3D animation and modeling and everything. So
Jason Hsieh (24:59)
Okay. Nice.
Daniel Lopez (25:01)
We eventually do want to have, our figures like actual physical objects that you can purchase. So, yeah.
Jason Hsieh (25:07)
Oh, that might be an interesting idea for a product
Expansion. So now you’re not just a card game, you’re really a toy company too.
Daniel Lopez (25:15)
Yeah, basically it. So we want to like bring to life these characters of like making them pretty and maybe with the whole Labubu hype right now, like
The mystery characters, we
Jason Hsieh (25:27)
Hmm
Daniel Lopez (25:28)
Would want to have like the different characters like in a mystery box and you don’t know where you’re getting, you’re trying to collect them all. So that
Jason Hsieh (25:30)
And
Daniel Lopez (25:35)
Would be like kind of like the route we would like because it’s like kind of implementing two things we love into one.
So that would be more of the route and obviously being like in brick and mortar stores, Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble.
That’s the dream goal of being there. Yeah, would be it.
Jason Hsieh (25:52)
I see, I see. And I know selling game as an independent small publisher or small company is always hard. What has been like the toughest part for you so far and with your team building this game company from the ground up?
Daniel Lopez (26:03)
Of course, I think the toughest thing is in a way trying to plan out inventory, I would say. I think that’s the
Jason Hsieh (26:10)
Okay. Okay. Yes. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (26:12)
Biggest thing, because unfortunately it does take quite a while to make the games and ship the games and have them here.
So you
Jason Hsieh (26:19)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (26:19)
Kind of have like, um, cushion, if you want to
Jason Hsieh (26:22)
And
Daniel Lopez (26:22)
Say of like having enough inventory here, because we’re sending it to Amazon, we’re sending it to TikTok shop,
We’re working with a universal distribution. So it’s like sending them inventory and they did awesome so far. And having inventory for like the other smaller retail stores that do purchase from us. So we
Jason Hsieh (26:39)
Hmm.
Daniel Lopez (26:39)
Have like a warehouse with the games, but planning the inventory has been tricky.
We haven’t mastered it, so I
Jason Hsieh (26:43)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (26:45)
Advise I wouldn’t really have to so far.
But having kind of like a cushion is the only thing I would say of some units like here just in case like and then.
Jason Hsieh (26:53)
Yeah. Because that also
Tied to kind of cashflow management, because if you overorder, then you’re kind of in a very tricky situation where you have 10,000 inventories sitting in the warehouse that’s
Daniel Lopez (27:04)
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (27:04)
Not selling fast enough. It’s just eating up all the cash
Daniel Lopez (27:06)
Yourself.
Jason Hsieh (27:07)
That you have as a business too. So.
Daniel Lopez (27:09)
100 % You have to plan it out properly because even on Amazon FBA, which FBA is just fulfilled by Amazon FBM
Jason Hsieh (27:17)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (27:17)
Fulfilled by merchant for those that don’t know. A huge tip for Amazon if you’re selling anything at all. And I’ve always told people this constantly.
If you can make sure you have your stock in your inventory. I know I’m like going off a tangent, but make sure you have your inventory in FBA fulfilled by Amazon. The reason
Jason Hsieh (27:34)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Daniel Lopez (27:36)
Why is because FBM fulfilled by merchants, me shipping it out to the consumer. The reason people buy FBA is because it’s prime. If you have
Jason Hsieh (27:45)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (27:46)
That prime membership, you’re getting in two days me shipping it out. It’s going to be like four or five days to arrive to you. So
Jason Hsieh (27:51)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. That have a huge impact
On the conversion rate,
Daniel Lopez (27:54)
Sales go up by
A lot because people look for items that are FBA. That would be I guess like one
Tip I would give for, for Amazon, for example. But as I was saying on Amazon, if you have too much inventory and their storage, they start charging you and that gets to the point. That you
Jason Hsieh (28:09)
Yeah, that’s a long-term switch. Yes.
Daniel Lopez (28:12)
Do have like liquidation. They like send the inventory back to you and they charge you for sending it back to you. So, but you have
Jason Hsieh (28:17)
Forward sending it back to yes, that’s correct. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (28:20)
To make sure to have like a good amount and healthy account health and healthy amount of inventory there. It’s preferable.
Jason Hsieh (28:25)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (28:26)
You have it here, but it’s like, try to manage that as like, I think the main thing.
Us because it’s like different avenues that we sent in.
Jason Hsieh (28:31)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Usually I recommend to have
About two to three months of inventory on hand in FBA at all times.
Daniel Lopez (28:38)
Right.
Jason Hsieh (28:39)
Yeah. If it’s too low, it can be kind of, if you have a sales spike, then you can sell it out really quickly. But if it’s too much, you will
Daniel Lopez (28:45)
100%.
Jason Hsieh (28:46)
Run into the exact same issue you just mentioned with the long-term storage fee, which hit at a six month mark.
Daniel Lopez (28:50)
It’s tricky.
It’s tricky.
You don’t want to have too much, but you don’t want to have too little because if you go sold
Jason Hsieh (28:55)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (28:55)
Out Amazon, it’s a bad thing. But if you have too much inventory, it’s a bad thing. So it’s like trying to balance that out of having enough
Jason Hsieh (28:57)
Is a very bad thing. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Daniel Lopez (29:03)
Inventory. But like you said, having a good cash flow for it. But it’s something you just end up learning that you kind of see. There’s sometimes you contact the influencer and they do way more sales than you thought. And it happens. It’s a good
Jason Hsieh (29:14)
Yes,
Daniel Lopez (29:16)
Thing. It’s a bad thing, but you just have to be grateful.
That it happened and if you do go sold out like get inventory as quick as possible and just try
Jason Hsieh (29:23)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (29:23)
To regroup it’s not the end of the world but it’s just learning to adapt i think is the biggest thing
Jason Hsieh (29:29)
Of
Course, of course. Thank you for sharing all that. So as well kind of wrapping up today’s interview here, if you have to share just one piece of advice with someone that’s getting started in the toys and game industry, what would that be?
Daniel Lopez (29:40)
To start. To just start. I think what would be the advice. Think, I think unfortunately we are,
Jason Hsieh (29:42)
To start. Okay.
Daniel Lopez (29:48)
Us as humans we’re in our heads too much. What if it doesn’t work? What if
Jason Hsieh (29:50)
And
Daniel Lopez (29:52)
This person’s right about it? What if it is a silly dream?
Jason Hsieh (29:55)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (29:56)
And unfortunately a lot of dreams don’t come true. Cause people
Jason Hsieh (29:59)
Mm.
Daniel Lopez (30:00)
Just get afraid and it’s true. Cause you have to get out of your comfort zone.
It’s just looking for a way to get out your comfort zone. First realize you’re in a comfort zone, then you’re able to get out of it and then just try.
Jason Hsieh (30:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (30:12)
Like okay, let’s say you try, you fail, but you learn from those failures and then you can do a different approach. But if you never
Jason Hsieh (30:19)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (30:20)
Try, I think one of the biggest things that if you go to a nursing home and they asked and there was like interviews about it, the biggest thing that people have is regret. And I think that’s like
Jason Hsieh (30:28)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (30:29)
The biggest thing. So they wish they would have went to like move somewhere else. They wish they would have started a business. They wish anything that they didn’t do
You’re gonna remember the things you regret and you didn’t even try doing so I think it’s just do it Just have kind of like a blind faith. Be smart about it Don’t just do it to do it but kind of like have kind of like a game plan and then just go for it and then Learn as you go. I mean when you learn how to bike you how your training was and they took them off and then you fell a few times Eventually, you’re
Jason Hsieh (30:59)
Yeah.
Daniel Lopez (31:01)
Able to actually ride the bike. Yeah
Jason Hsieh (31:03)
For sure, for sure. Just go for it.
Daniel Lopez (31:04)
So I would say just go for it. Yeah. And don’t care about what people say
Or think. Cause usually the ones like making fun of you or like putting negative thoughts in your head, they never did what they wanted to do. So it’s like you’re getting advice
Jason Hsieh (31:16)
Mmm, that’s a point.
Daniel Lopez (31:18)
From people that aren’t where you want to be.
Jason Hsieh (31:22)
Exactly.
Exactly. So that’s a very good piece of advice. So
Daniel Lopez (31:26)
Thanks.
Jason Hsieh (31:27)
For our audience that would love to learn a little bit more about you and your business, where is the best place for people to find online?
Daniel Lopez (31:33)
Yeah, the best place for us, it’s Instagram. I manage Instagram a bit more. It’s Kawaii Lab Games,
Jason Hsieh (31:38)
Yeah. Okay.
Daniel Lopez (31:40)
But as well, TikTok, Facebook and everything, it’s Kawaii Lab Games. And we
Jason Hsieh (31:44)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Lopez (31:45)
Have a website, same thing. Everything is always the same, Kawaii Lab Games. So it’s like, can find this on Amazon, TikTok, Instagram, our website. But if you want to get like a quick direct contact, or if you have any questions that you heard me talk about, or Jason talked about in this interview, you could message me at DM me
On Instagram I’ll reply right away. I
Jason Hsieh (32:03)
Okay.
Daniel Lopez (32:03)
Don’t mind helping. I think it’s important to help because it’s i wish i would have had this feedback when i was starting so it’s like you just always help the next person yeah so yeah Kawaii Lab Games you can find pretty much everywhere online that way
Jason Hsieh (32:17)
Okay, I’ll make sure we put that in the show notes. And thank you so much for your time again today to sharing your story and joining and the lesson that you learned along the way.
Daniel Lopez (32:25)
Of course, of course. Thanks, Jason, for having me. It’s always a pleasure talking to you.
Jason Hsieh (32:28)
Same here. And for our audience, thank you for tuning in for this episode of Toy Business Unboxed podcast. I hope today’s conversation give you some practical insight and fresh inspiration for growing your own toys for game brands or companies. This podcast is sponsored by Toy Launch, a leading marketing and growth partner for toys and game companies. At Toy Launch, we help brands scale on Amazon and beyond through full service account management, advertising, SEO, creative.
Influencer marketing and more if you are looking for a proven team that understand both the toys and game industry and ecommerce marketing Inside out we are here to help if you like a professional breakdown of your brand your opportunity and your best marketing Step you can schedule a free consultations a session with us. Just visit toy-launch.com/schedule If you want to connect with other toys and game founders, feel free to join our free communities toys and game launch pad
You can find that on Facebook right now or can visit toy-launch.com/group for more information, for more resource update, industry insight, and all of our previous podcast episode, visit us at any time at toy-launch.com. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joy through toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone. Have a good one. Bye.
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