How to Turn Trade Show Connections Into Real Distribution

Jason Hsieh (00:42)
Welcome back to another episode of toy business Unboxed podcast and your host Jason Hsieh, and today’s episode, we have

Here. Okay. So for today’s episode, we have the owner of JoPat Games, Chris on the show. It is a Chicago based game company that he had built from the ground up with no prior industry experience. After a career in mass healthcare software and digital advertising, he decided to create this new publishing company. So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, Chris.

Chris Savino (01:14)
Hey Jason, thanks for having me.

Jason Hsieh (01:16)
So first, before you started the JoPat Games, the publishing companies, you have a very diverse career. Can you kind of take us back to that chapter of your life and like, why do you even decided to start a game company?

Chris Savino (01:31)
Yeah.

So after college, I started at Epic Systems, which is a healthcare software company. So if you ever used MyChart, it’s the company that makes that.

Jason Hsieh (01:38)
And

Chris Savino (01:39)
And then I worked for five years there then I switched over to targeted advertising. So

Jason Hsieh (01:44)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (01:45)
Those ads that follow you around the internet and know what

Jason Hsieh (01:47)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (01:47)
You’re looking at or what you’re even thinking about before you even want to buy it. So we were doing those.

Jason Hsieh (01:50)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (01:52)
And so in both roles, I worked in technical services.

Jason Hsieh (01:56)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (01:56)
Which

Was basically the role that’s the middleman between my engineering team at my company and then the client teams, like the tech side of the client teams. So

Jason Hsieh (02:06)
Really?

Chris Savino (02:07)
I would help get their systems ready for our software or how to get the data in from the ad companies that want to work with us. And it was nice to be in that middle ground where I could code a little.

And talk with the engineers, but also use my social skills and talk with people and being client facing mediums and stuff.

Jason Hsieh (02:23)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (02:24)
Um, and I liked it a lot. Um, so I’d help clients update their, uh, emergency department software, QA bugs when the patient charts were working wrong or the advertising company. I’d, um, like make sure that ads were targeting the right people, the right age group, the right geolocation, the right products were showing up in the ads and everything. Um, I really enjoyed like the problem.

Puzzle solving aspect of it. And in the back of my head was always, what was this game idea? eventually, eventually I got there.

Jason Hsieh (02:52)
I see. So what was this game idea that you have?

Chris Savino (02:55)
Yeah. It was a crosswords. So, Cross Spin is, is our game that came out. And so I always, love crosswords. I would be in my college class at the back. I had the paper there and I was playing it on pen and paper. And now I do New York times daily. And the back of my head, I just always had this idea, of spinning it, of spinning the board.

And changing the puzzle layout while you’re actively playing it and how that could work as a functionality in into a game. Whether digital or on a manual on a piece of paper or a work board or something. And so I basically started there and decided how can I make that into something that multiple people would play versus like an idea in my head.

Jason Hsieh (03:37)
I see, see, I see. And how long does that that take you from idea in your head to actual physical product in the market?

Chris Savino (03:44)
Totally. So it was about a year and a half from really deciding this is something I want to try to

Jason Hsieh (03:51)
Mm.

Chris Savino (03:52)
The day they landed at my house from the truck. Yeah, it started with me making my own puzzles in my house, getting a subscription to Adobe Illustrator, making some fake puzzles, printing them out, designing gameplay.

And how that might work. I i took games that I liked, so like this category-based game where I gave you a category and you kind of build from there, realizing that you couldn’t solve the same clue if it flipped. So the user would need more opportunities to solve each puzzle. So the categories allow you to do that. So you choose a bird or a name or something, depending on the way you flip it is different words are going to work in different combinations. So printed those out, had my friends and family play test for me.

Got it down to like a game that could actually exist. And then from there, I needed to figure out how do I get into the world? Like, are the next steps? and you pointed out, I was brand new. So I didn’t know where to go. So I went down Google holes, search in, companies, you, you can find manufacturers pretty easy, but it’s pretty daunting to just kind of reach out when, when you’re not sure, what you need.

Like spec wise or park wise or how far along on the path to be.

Jason Hsieh (04:59)
Yeah, yeah.

Chris Savino (04:59)
So actually went back and I, uh, reached out to some old colleagues and college friends and said, anyone had like design contacts or, uh, inventor contacts or something? And actually through my brother, uh, reconnected with an old, uh, childhood friend who actually

Jason Hsieh (05:17)
OK.

Chris Savino (05:18)
Had an invention himself. Um,

Jason Hsieh (05:21)
I see, okay.

Chris Savino (05:21)
And

He took that invention and started a little company to help new inventors get off the ground. Basically, basically a consultant for new inventors. It was, the timing couldn’t have worked better because that’s exactly what I needed going from

Jason Hsieh (05:28)
Okay. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Savino (05:35)
Zero. So they helped me find designer. They helped me find a factory to print. They helped me

Jason Hsieh (05:42)
Nice.

Chris Savino (05:42)
Figure out my shipping and tariffs and everything that was new to me.

Which is great. And they worked like a consulting company, so they worked on a fee. And what I paid, I learned most importantly. And so now I do have a better sense of how the pieces kind of fit together or how to find more people to help me or to have the strength to go talk to the manufacturers myself. So it was really good learning opportunity to get me from zero to now having a game that I sell.

Jason Hsieh (06:08)
Yeah, I mean, the first game always take the longest because there’s a lot of learnings, a lot of things that you need to navigate. Just like you mentioned, freight forwarding, the tariff, the design, the game testing, everything that’s underneath that. What are some of the key lessons that you learned throughout your process?

Chris Savino (06:27)
I think what I learned was each piece along the way, there’s multiple options for me. So you don’t have to stick with the designer from the first one you find, you don’t have to stick with the manufacturer. The first one you find, like it’s always good to like expand, your reach. Also everyone that you talk to, does it their own way and that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best way.

But that’s the way that they like to do it. It’s finding out what path makes the most sense for me. And I think tried a designer, wasn’t my favorite. And I thought I wasted all this time, but now that I have a product I like more, like it was the right call to invest a little more time, right?

Jason Hsieh (07:05)
I see. Did you ever

Invest it into launching it on Kickstarter as well?

Chris Savino (07:10)
So I actually never did Kickstarter. I

Jason Hsieh (07:13)
Okay.

Chris Savino (07:14)
Kind of started the path. I was so naive I wasn’t sure of the paths available to me.

Jason Hsieh (07:19)
I see.

Chris Savino (07:19)
And so I went into Chitag. Went for my first fair. It’s a game and toy in Chicago, right? And

Jason Hsieh (07:27)
Yeah. Yes.

Chris Savino (07:29)
I went in there and I was basically almost to the point I had a couple samples of the final game.

Um, and when I was there, I talked to some other game designers and it was really my first interaction with other game designers. Um, and I

Jason Hsieh (07:42)
I see.

Chris Savino (07:43)
Probably should have started those combos a lot earlier, but I realized I kind of chipped a couple steps. Um,

Jason Hsieh (07:49)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (07:50)
And I, had kind of went on the path of my own without really digging into maybe if I wanted to sell it to a game company, uh,

Jason Hsieh (07:58)
Mmm.

Chris Savino (07:59)
Sell the idea or go the Kickstarter route.

Jason Hsieh (08:02)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (08:03)
And as, as I’ve learned more, I am happy where I ended up. Think Kickstarter works really well. If I was trying to build maybe like a universe for my game, or if I had really cool characters, which none of my games are character driven,

Jason Hsieh (08:18)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (08:19)
They’re all, sort of simple party games. And my artwork is design cool, but it’s not like art very

Character heavy or like very, no one’s going to be like, that’s the arc game, right? And

Jason Hsieh (08:31)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (08:31)
I think that’s what’s great for Kickstarter or if my next games were connected to the other games, but they’re all sort of one-offs.

Jason Hsieh (08:38)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (08:39)
That being said, the games there are awesome. And then selling it, I did wonder if maybe that was a path I should have went to instead, as I now have to be a lot more business focused.

Than maybe if you went the other way. But I do think you lose your ownership of your product. So,

Jason Hsieh (08:56)
100 %

Chris Savino (08:57)
Yeah, I think what I’m really excited is the cross-band that’s out is my game and it is almost every decision was mine. And it’s selling. So like I got it to a point that…

Working and it would for sure look different in the hands of someone else. But then it’s not anymore, it’s not my baby, right?

Jason Hsieh (09:15)
Yeah, I think that’s a fair point because a lot of people are talking in the industry. Some people do try to go to a bigger publisher and try to sell their idea. But the problem is that if you haven’t even done the whole self-publishing yourself, it’s also harder to negotiate because you don’t know what the other side is evaluating because you don’t know the process behind putting the product into the market. But now you have done one, you know, like A to Z on exactly the step is it is required.

For the bigger publishing company because they also need to go through the same step that you did yourself. So.

Chris Savino (09:48)
100%. And I’m going long, obviously it’s taking me longer and I’m not as efficient. I’m probably burning money in certain places that they want.

Jason Hsieh (09:57)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (09:58)
But on the flip side, right now that it’s out, a much larger cut is coming to me. And I also, think what was exciting about this whole endeavor for me is the learning. I’m learning so much along the way. And I think that’s honestly maybe one of the better things that’s come out of it.

Me taking this path is just every, every day is new. I’m learning new stuff. There’s days I’m packing boxes, right? I’m into a truck or I’m going to the post office, trying to drop the games off and like very physical. And then there’s days I’m very art heavy and there’s days I’m doing tax account and stuff, right? Like it’s all over the place. But I

Like that. It’s very exciting. And then obviously the fun good days where I’m making

Jason Hsieh (10:36)
Mm.

Chris Savino (10:37)
The games and playing the games and going to the fairs and all that sort of stuff.

Jason Hsieh (10:40)
100%. I think that’s a major difference between self-publishing versus licensing your product to a bigger publisher because self-publishing, you’re really running a real business. You need to do finance, operation, marketing, logistics, customer support, everything.

Chris Savino (10:54)
Everything. Everything.

Jason Hsieh (10:56)
Which I also did when I first started my toy company 10 years ago, I was doing everything in my garage as well.

Chris Savino (11:02)
Yeah,

All those support emails, those are all coming to my inbox, right? They’re still coming my direction,

Jason Hsieh (11:06)
Yes, yes, yes.

Chris Savino (11:08)
Right?

Jason Hsieh (11:08)
Yeah, I can totally relate. But looking back, if you have to learn this industry from scratch again, what surprised you the most in your learning journey about the industry,

About how things actually work?

Chris Savino (11:20)
Yeah, I mean, think game and toys are fun, obviously a fun industry to jump into. Everyone’s been very kind and approachable that I’ve talked to and met or reached out to.

Jason Hsieh (11:30)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (11:31)
It’s bigger than I thought. And I think what my games and what I’m learning is this like, I’ve heard the term kiddult a bunch where,

Jason Hsieh (11:38)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Chris Savino (11:40)
Yeah, that’s where I lie. And I think it’s great. I like,

Older people are buying toys and they’re playing games and games are doing well. I mean, just the sheer number of games compared to when I was a kid, available now that are coming out every year, right? I think the social media aspect of it was a big learn for me. Like I just didn’t realize the expanse of it. It’s so deep in the toy and the game stuff. It’s so much bigger than I imagined.

Just number of accounts and everyone that’s interested in it and have quick mind scram and TikTok turn into game stuff everywhere, right? Like, just internet. It’s so fun. But I think I would also thought that makes me Oh no, I need to blow up on socials to sell game and stuff. And then you also see like, the best way is to just people need to play it. Like the more people you can get to play the better and the word of mouth will spread.

Jason Hsieh (12:29)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (12:29)
And

It’s cool if something can be visually, like I still think people need to play it or use it to like really understand like how cool the product is.

Jason Hsieh (12:38)
Of course, yeah. And I want to kind of transition since you talk about how it’s very important for people to play it like in person. You

Also have

Chris Savino (12:46)
If

Jason Hsieh (12:47)
Been going and attending a lot of trade shows like GAMA where we met and also other trade show. What was the experience for you when you first exhibited at those shows and what are some of the main takeaway that you learned?

Chris Savino (12:56)
Totally. Yeah. I mean,

I was definitely nervous going into those. Having that never really done a trade show before.

The costs are a little scary upfront, especially when you’re building booths and doing the fees and tickets to get in the everything. It is nice

Jason Hsieh (13:09)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (13:11)
To be able to reuse displays and like redo that. I think what was really nice is the networking at those.

Not just like sales networking, but like everything I don’t think I realized like designers and distributors and most of it, like the other game designers and inventors that are there trying to sell their product. Like that’s majorly helpful is to make connections of, Oh you’re where I was a year ago, or I’m doing something similar or like those have been like really nice. And

Jason Hsieh (13:44)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (13:44)
Then I think

What I also learned is each fair is a different audience. Like I did Gamma and that’s really like small, just readers mom and pop shops, right? Like sort of stuff. And that’s fun. And you, treat that a little differently than when I New York Toy Fair and that was toy companies and like way bigger. And they’re looking at a much grander scale versus like.

Buying a single game or a single box from you, and like, finding that I got tailor to who you’re talking to, let alone the fair you’re talking to. And then I think my big takeaway is I, Jopat Games we’re doing party games and social games and that walks a fine line in between game and toy and it’s in games in general.

Jason Hsieh (14:27)
And voice, yeah.

Chris Savino (14:31)
Game fairs, you find people that I’ll call them hardcore gamers, like I’ve

Jason Hsieh (14:36)
Yes, yes.

Chris Savino (14:37)
Been approached about my games and they’re like, oh, this is a, I don’t want to say real game, it’s a simple game. It’s a game you play in between other games. It’s a palette cleanser game.

Jason Hsieh (14:41)
Too simple. Maybe too simple for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Savino (14:48)
And then I know on the flip side, you go to toy fair and I am more approachable than some of the other games because.

There’s more of a mass appeal to it. You can get someone who doesn’t play games often to play it.

Jason Hsieh (14:58)
Yes. Yeah.

Chris Savino (15:01)
And I think that’s very cool to be in the middle there. But then I also noticed these fairs aren’t the perfect spot for either are perfect or the line or the line I’m trying to walk. So I’m this middle ground where

Jason Hsieh (15:08)
Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah.

Chris Savino (15:13)
A sub-fraction of each of these audiences isn’t interested already. And it’s finding the middle ground. Most people

Are into it. Most people are.

Jason Hsieh (15:22)
I think

What you can also look into, have you attended any gift show yet? Like Atlanta gift market and other give shows? Okay, your product

Chris Savino (15:29)
On my list for sure, I have not done that, yes.

Jason Hsieh (15:32)
Could be like a really good give item.

Chris Savino (15:35)
Yes, gifts

Or books or I think Crosswind can work for teachers like their school fairs

Jason Hsieh (15:39)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (15:40)
I could go to. Yeah, that’s all in the horizon for

Jason Hsieh (15:43)
I

See. I see. See. And have you been to any B2C show yet? Because the toy fair and also Gamma is all B2Bs, like gear to other businesses. Have you been to any B2C one? okay.

Chris Savino (15:52)
Only the Chitag one have I been

To there. And again, that’s a little more like kid, totally focused. We

Jason Hsieh (15:59)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (16:00)
Did sales, but that’s also fun too, because the customer playing the physical, like, I want a game from you right now is very fun. It’s very addictive. That’s very cool

Jason Hsieh (16:10)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (16:11)
To see them try your product and then like walk away with it and have it right then because they enjoyed it.

Jason Hsieh (16:16)
I see.

Chris Savino (16:16)
Yeah, to your point.

Also another audience for you to, so you got to tailor who you’re talking to or like how to pitch it. What’s fun though, but those do good. Do good. My games are simple and you can play around and in a minute. So it’s nice. I can get people to the table and kind of hook them in to at least try the game.

Jason Hsieh (16:32)
Try the game fairly quickly.

Chris Savino (16:33)
It’s where we can get around in pretty fast of all the games. Can go real fast versus, a larger game, a longer game is.

It’s a little harder to get people. Kind of need to do those game nights where people can sit down and take the time and play.

Jason Hsieh (16:46)
Hmm. Yeah.

So, okay. And I want to kind of transition to kind of digital marketing. What has been some of the strategy that work well for your brand digital marketing wise? Any social media, any particular platform, Google, Amazon, Facebook, that it work best for you?

Chris Savino (17:03)
Yeah, Amazon’s been our best. So I’ve definitely put some money into advertising there. It’s definitely a learning for me. I was new to Amazon and just learning the pieces of how to function. You’re such a small fish in the big pond there.

Jason Hsieh (17:18)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (17:19)
And to get your account the way Amazon wants it, it has to be perfect.

Jason Hsieh (17:23)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (17:24)
They don’t allow like any little change and if they do turn something down, they don’t really give you the reason why it was turned down and you kind of figure

Jason Hsieh (17:30)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Savino (17:32)
Out so like troubleshooting I’ve had more luck outside

Jason Hsieh (17:35)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (17:36)
Of Amazon like YouTube’s or finding that someone helped me

Jason Hsieh (17:40)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (17:41)
But advertising there was good the holidays was good there I had some

Campaigns go in. I do think what I learned there is you have to be pretty, on your Amazon advertising. It’s an active watch to adjust and change versus sort of like letting it ride, which is kind of from my old advertising company. The way those larger campaigns worked for companies was a little display campaign for more like we, turned it on and just let it go for 60 days

Jason Hsieh (18:05)
They’re different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Savino (18:10)
Versus like making, cause

You were trying to learn the adjustments versus on Amazon. If someone sees it, can buy like immediately.

Jason Hsieh (18:19)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (18:19)
And then we also went, and I did some, Facebook and Tik TOK,

Jason Hsieh (18:23)
Okay.

Chris Savino (18:23)
Stuff. And that was good. My first foray into, finding some content creators, to make some videos for me. Just working with them was a good learning experience.

So, you know, that works display versus video versus

Jason Hsieh (18:34)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (18:36)
What’s good on Facebook and Instagram versus TikTok, which

Jason Hsieh (18:40)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (18:41)
Has been fun. And then also there’s a digital version of CrossSpin 2. So I’ve made some videos to try to get people to play the daily game as well on their phones. And so that’s

Jason Hsieh (18:48)
Good. Yeah.

Chris Savino (18:50)
Kind of fun to find the line in between those. And so we’ve been getting some players off of those too, which has been pretty fun. I do

Jason Hsieh (18:57)
Nice.

Chris Savino (18:58)
Think

I focused mostly on Amazon. Most of the sales are on Amazon, so I wouldn’t focus mostly on Amazon. I tipped out in there. I tipped out in the LinkedIn ads because it’s a crossword game and I thought we could get some people at work playing.

Jason Hsieh (19:10)
How did I go with a linking

That I haven’t run any linking app before.

Chris Savino (19:14)
It was it was interesting. I wouldn’t say it much came over but it was fun. It works just the same It’s all filled in audiences off the people but

Jason Hsieh (19:22)
Were

You able to make it profitable with the linking app?

Chris Savino (19:25)
LinkedIn, np, like it was one of those try us out and we’ll give you some cash to try us out. So it was you. But I was going for more like people playing the game versus like the digital game versus the physical game. Yeah. Amazon’s been my good one. And then my Facebook ads have worked as well.

Jason Hsieh (19:41)
Okay, okay, okay. And I know you’re also debuting some of your new games this year. Do you have any of the prototypes with you today during the show? If not, you can talk about them.

Chris Savino (19:51)
I should have brought them. Don’t know what I was thinking. I’ll send you some pictures. We

Jason Hsieh (19:55)
Okay.

Chris Savino (19:55)
Got two new games this year. Got Connect the Dots and Initial Reactions. And so those are coming out. So Connect the Dots is

Jason Hsieh (20:01)
Okay.

Chris Savino (20:02)
A mind melding game. So I know if you ever played this game growing up, but it works like three, two, one, and then you say a word and then you would say a word and then we try to match those words. So we get closer and closer as you go.

Jason Hsieh (20:13)
I haven’t played that before.

Chris Savino (20:14)
Yeah, maybe you say toy and I say boat.

Jason Hsieh (20:17)
Okay.

Chris Savino (20:17)
And then

We’d have to think of a connection between toy and boat and you go

Jason Hsieh (20:20)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (20:20)
Three, two, one, and you say another word. Maybe like Lego

Jason Hsieh (20:24)
Okay.

Chris Savino (20:25)
Or bath time or something. And then

Jason Hsieh (20:28)
Interesting. Okay, okay.

Chris Savino (20:29)
You go until you connect and then you match on one and then the quicker you match more points you get. And it opens

Jason Hsieh (20:35)
Okay,

Chris Savino (20:36)
Up to 10 players. So the more people there are, the more likely you’re going to match, but it also gives you more opportunities on words to match on.

Jason Hsieh (20:43)
Yes.

Chris Savino (20:44)
It’s, it’s a quick one.

And then I basically gave you the starting words on that one. Yeah,

Jason Hsieh (20:48)
I see.

Chris Savino (20:49)
And then the other game is Initial Reactions, and that game is an acronym based prompts. So

Jason Hsieh (20:57)
Okay.

Chris Savino (20:58)
I’ll give you a card. It’s Why were you late for work today? And then we’re to roll some dice. And so

Jason Hsieh (21:03)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (21:04)
There’s a number dice. So let’s say it rolls a two. That

Jason Hsieh (21:06)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (21:07)
Means you roll two letter dice. So the letters come out and it’s

A T and a P.

And so then we

Jason Hsieh (21:12)
Okay.

Chris Savino (21:12)
Need to think of a two word answer that starts with one word with a T and one word with a P of why you relate for work. Like traffic problems or potty troubles, right? And then

Jason Hsieh (21:21)
Okay. That’s pretty tricky. Okay. No traffic problem. Yeah. Okay. I see. I see.

Chris Savino (21:30)
There’s a voter, whoever read the card decides who they think is the funniest.

Jason Hsieh (21:32)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (21:34)
Um, and acronyms are fun because you’re, you’re coming up with the funny answer for the game. Or let’s

Jason Hsieh (21:38)
Yes.

Chris Savino (21:39)
Say, I rolled a J, I could put your name into my answer and like appeal to you or make fun of you. Like which one we’re going, right? Like, uh, uh,

Jason Hsieh (21:47)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (21:51)
It’s fun. And then there a bunch of just quirky fun questions, um, on that one. Again, easy to learn both the games you play for however many rounds you want to play really.

Jason Hsieh (22:01)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (22:01)
And very social, but again, 10 players too, so both my games are wide and a bunch of people can play. Yes. Yeah, they’ll be

Jason Hsieh (22:08)
What is the timeline for the other two games? Is it coming up?

Chris Savino (22:11)
Out this summer, so August or so.

Jason Hsieh (22:13)
Oh, okay, okay. I see, I see, I see. Cut.

Chris Savino (22:17)
Yeah,

Those are coming out and then hopefully some more in upcoming years as well.

Jason Hsieh (22:22)
I see. So looking ahead here, what is your vision for the company over the next few years? Are you planning to

Develop

Chris Savino (22:28)
Yeah.

Jason Hsieh (22:28)
A lot more games only in the party kind of categories?

Chris Savino (22:31)
Yeah, I think that is the games that I like and I enjoy playing the most. So I see myself staying there. I have a few more ideas for the upcoming years as well

Jason Hsieh (22:40)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (22:41)
For some additional games in it. They’re all simple, quick to learn,

Jason Hsieh (22:45)
Hmm.

Chris Savino (22:46)
Fun to play sort of games. Yeah, I think where I’m hoping to learn some more is now that I’m going to have more than one SKU out, how does that change?

Jason Hsieh (22:56)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (22:55)
My day to day and what that

Looks like. I think that opens some doors. I want to focus on some distribution. So I’ve

Jason Hsieh (23:01)
Weird.

Chris Savino (23:01)
Started talking with some distributors after these fairs

Jason Hsieh (23:04)
Okay.

Chris Savino (23:05)
And with some promise. And I think I can start focusing on looking at a little more retail versus

Jason Hsieh (23:10)
Okay.

Chris Savino (23:11)
Right now I’m heavily online.

Jason Hsieh (23:13)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (23:14)
And then I want to just improve, improve my Amazon, improve, improve my social media, improve my accounting. I think everything.

Can be improved on, but right, I’m still new, I’m still learning. But yeah,

Jason Hsieh (23:25)
Thanks.

Chris Savino (23:26)
I think to be, to really give us a go, I’m gonna need a few games and see where that can take me. But yeah, the dream would be more retail. Have that grow from there. Would start with the smaller shops and see if I can

Jason Hsieh (23:38)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Savino (23:39)
Get up to the bigger guys and then grow some socials and get these new games out the door.

Jason Hsieh (23:42)
Hmm,

I see. See. Yeah. Retail is a whole different ballgame as you already know. Yeah. So a lot of follow up.

Chris Savino (23:46)
100%. Yes, yes.

Jason Hsieh (23:49)
So yeah, but thank you so much for sharing all that as we’re Kind of wrapping up today’s interview here, looking back

Chris Savino (23:57)
It.

Jason Hsieh (23:57)
In your own journey, if you have to share just one piece of advice with someone else that’s getting started within the toys and game industry, what would that be?

Chris Savino (24:05)
Yeah, I think my advice would be lots of suggestions and improvements to your game and products will be thrown your way for gameplay, for packaging, for design, marketing, et cetera. And while there’s a lot of good info to garner, I think take everything with a grain of salt.

Jason Hsieh (24:25)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (24:27)
It’s your vision, the product, and it’s okay to trust your gut.

And lean on ideas that might be against what people are telling or even make a decision and learn from it and back away. Every game is gonna have its own path to getting out there. And just because something worked for another game or another company doesn’t mean it’ll work again or work for you. I think,

Jason Hsieh (24:46)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (24:48)
Yeah, I think people are quick to…

I don’t want to say judge, like, oh, you should have done this or switch this or you got to change this. Like, obviously listen, like there’s, great stuff to learn, but that doesn’t necessarily mean what you were doing is is wrong or couldn’t work or there’s ways to improve. Um,

Jason Hsieh (25:04)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (25:06)
So yeah, it’s the, think the best part of this whole experience for me is, as I’m learning, it’s all new

Jason Hsieh (25:10)
Yeah.

Chris Savino (25:11)
And, um, exciting and starting a new path for my life. So it’s very cool.

Jason Hsieh (25:16)
Of course. Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing that. And thank you so much for sharing your journey with our audience today on the show for our audience. That’s interested to learn a little bit more about you and your brand. Where is the best place for people to find you online?

Chris Savino (25:28)
Yep, our website’s jopatgames.com and then we got social, got at jopatgames on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok are our big ones. And then we got a small YouTube channel as well.

Jason Hsieh (25:40)
Okay, I will make sure we put that all in the show notes as well. And thank you again for being on our show.

Chris Savino (25:47)
I appreciate it, so thank you for the time.

Jason Hsieh (25:49)
And thank you for our listener for tuning into this episode of Toy Business Unboxed podcast. Hope today’s conversation give you some practical insight and fresh inspiration for growing your own toys for game businesses. This podcast is produced, sponsored by Toy Launch, a leading marketing and growth partner for toys and game companies. At Toy Launch, we help brands scale on Amazon and beyond through full service account management, advertising, SEO, creative, catalog optimization, influencer marketing, and more.

If you’re looking for a proven team that really understand the toys and game industry and e-commerce marketing, we’re here to help. If you’d like a personalized breakdown of your brand opportunity and your best next step, feel free to schedule a free consultation session with us. Just visit toy-launch.Com/schedule. If you ever want to connect with other toys and game founder, feel free to join our free community, toys and game launch pad at toy-launch.com/group for more information.

For more resource, update and industry insight, visit us at any times. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joy through toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone. Have a good one.