Welcome to this episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast, where host Jason Hsieh sits down with Roger Hunziker and Tom Gerber, co-founders of Keebox, a Swiss company that hand-crafts puzzle boxes. What started in 2018 as a hobby between two brothers and a friend has grown into a full-time business built entirely without outside investors. Roger, Tom, and their third co-founder Pascal Hunziker bring different backgrounds in psychology, mechanical design, and finance to a shared love of building things. In this conversation, they walk through how a mobile escape room concept turned into a line of sequential discovery puzzle boxes, and what it takes to design, print, and sell a product most people have never seen before.
#205: Solving the Puzzle of Scaling a Toy Company – Toy Business Unboxed
Episode Highlight
- 00:42 Meet the Keebox team
- 01:20 Starting Keebox as a hobby in 2018
- 03:22 Learning 3D printing from scratch
- 05:36 What is a Keebox puzzle box
- 07:01 Difficulty levels and solve times
- 09:07 Building a new box takes months
- 11:54 Inside the 20-printer production farm
- 12:56 Marketing an unfamiliar product
- 17:15 Expanding into Japan through Hanayama
- 20:55 Advice for new toy founders
From Hobby to Full-Time Company
Keebox began in 2018 when brothers Roger and Pascal Hunziker, along with Tom Gerber, started experimenting with an idea for a mobile escape room people could build in their own room. The concept needed small custom pieces, so the team picked up 3D printers to make them, and that decision ended up shaping the entire business. What was once a side project run out of a garage slowly grew as the founders kept iterating on the idea. Today Keebox is the three founders’ full-time job, built without any external investors or outside funding.
Three Founders, One Shared Vision
Roger comes from a background in psychology and social work, Tom studied mechanical engineering and industrial design, and Pascal handles the company’s finances. Despite their different training, the founders say what actually makes Keebox work is not their differences but what they have in common. All three share a love for creating, making, and solving problems, and that shared drive shows up in how they run the business day to day. Outside of finance, which stays mostly with Pascal, everyone at Keebox pitches in across design, printing, and production. That shared ownership keeps the team aligned even as the company has grown past its hobbyist roots.
What Makes a Keebox Puzzle Box Unique
A Keebox is what the team calls a sequential discovery puzzle box: an escape room condensed into something that fits in your hands. Instead of pulling the box apart, solvers move pieces, uncover hidden tools, and use logic and observation to work their way to a hidden token inside. The company currently sells four versions, Keebox Purple, Blue, Orange, and Yellow, each with its own difficulty level. Their scale runs from Easy Peasy through Tricky and A Real Challenge up to My Brain Hurts, with the easiest box taking about 20 minutes and the hardest taking an hour or more depending on experience. Solvers who get stuck can find hints on the Keebox website, which reveal the solution gradually instead of all at once.
Building Every Box In-House
Turning an idea into a finished Keebox takes about half a year. The process starts with a two-day kickoff weekend to map out theme and difficulty, then moves into CAD design and prototyping, with testing at every stage. Production happens in-house on a print farm of about 20 3D printers, 17 running almost constantly across day and night shifts. Each box has roughly 40 individual parts, cleaned up, quality-checked, and hand-assembled by the team. Keeping production local in Switzerland lets the founders react quickly and keep technical knowledge in-house.
Making an Unfamiliar Product Make Sense
Because nothing else on the market looks quite like a Keebox, explaining the product has always been part of the marketing challenge. Early packaging was a plain box with just the Keebox name, fine as a hobby project but confusing to shoppers once the boxes reached retail. The team redesigned packaging with an open window so people can see the product, plus copy framing it as an escape room in a box. In stores, Keebox asks retailers to place its boxes near similar wooden puzzle products from German competitors, letting the existing category help explain the product.
Growing Beyond Switzerland
Keebox isn’t currently sold on Amazon, a channel the founders have considered but decided isn’t the right fit while the company is still small. Sales run through their own online shop, Etsy, and a growing list of Swiss retail stores, including one of the country’s larger online retailers. Meeting international retailers at the Nuremberg Toy Fair opened doors to new markets, including a partnership with Hanayama in Japan, whose first batch of Keebox boxes sold out. The founders see real potential in Japan, where the compact, well-made puzzle box fits local buying habits. Growth outside Switzerland is still early, but each new retail contact adds another market.
A New Marketing Partner in The Op Games
Looking ahead, the team’s next step is launching another puzzle box within the existing Keebox lineup, building on the brand and community grown since 2018. Beyond that, Roger and Tom want to develop products in the wider play and puzzle space, outside the sequential discovery format Keebox is known for. Funding that next chapter is expected to come through a Kickstarter campaign, something the founders have watched work well for other puzzle box makers and now plan to run themselves. It’s a natural next step for a company that has scaled by staying close to its own resources and community.
Advice for Newcomers in the Toy and Game Industry
Tom’s advice for anyone starting out is simple: do not be afraid to start. He points back to Keebox’s first production run of 40 boxes as the moment that mattered most, because it turned an idea into real market feedback the team could act on. Putting a product you have thought about for a long time out into the world for people to judge takes real bravery, and Tom is upfront that it does not get easier just because you have done it before. Roger adds that if you genuinely like what you have made, chances are other people will too, but you only find those people by actually putting the product out there. Their shared takeaway is that momentum comes from shipping something real, not from waiting until an idea feels finished.
Conclusion
Keebox’s story is a reminder that a hobby project can grow into a real company without outside investors, as long as the people behind it keep learning and stay close to their craft. Roger, Tom, and Pascal built their business on 3D printing knowledge they picked up out of necessity, and that same hands-on approach still shapes how Keebox designs and produces every box today. Their focus on explaining an unusual product clearly, both through packaging and smart retail placement, has helped them grow steadily across Switzerland and into new markets like Japan. With another puzzle box and a Kickstarter campaign on the way, Keebox’s next chapter looks a lot like its first: built step by step, one box at a time.
Connect with Roger, Tom & Pascal
If you’re interested in learning more about Keebox Puzzles or connecting with Roger, Tom & Pascal you can reach out through the following channels:
- Website: Visit Keebox Puzzles’ official website for the latest news, game updates, and more
- Instagram: Follow Keebox Puzzles on Instagram for visual updates, game previews, and creative inspiration
- Facebook: Follow Keebox Puzzles on Facebook for updates, discussions, and behind-the-scenes content.
Transcript
Jason Hsieh (00:42)
Welcome back to another episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast. I’m your host, Jason Hsieh. For today’s guests, we have Roger and Tom, members of Keebox, a puzzle box company based in Switzerland, in Europe. And he and his team have started the company back in 2018 as a hobby. And now they are growing into a full-size company. Now they do it full times and they handcraft every single puzzle box in Switzerland as well. So today we’ll be talking about their background.
their challenges of scaling their toy companies and what will be the next chapter look like. So thank you so much Roger for you and your team to joining us on the podcast today.
Roger Hunziker (01:18)
You’re welcome. Thank you for having us.
Jason Hsieh (01:20)
So then take us back to 2018. So how do you started this idea and like how do you turn it into like a full time business? can you kinda share the story behind that?
Roger Hunziker (01:30)
Yeah, sure. well, as many things, I guess. it just started as a hobby. my brother and I, my brother is Pascal, he’s also a co-founder with myself and Tom.
we just always liked to create things, even when we were a child.
Jason Hsieh (01:44)
Mm.
Roger Hunziker (01:45)
we liked to make little games and then we liked puzzles and
I mean with the rise of YouTube and all these platforms, we kind of just started seeing more and more puzzles coming up online. And one day we just had that idea. I can’t really recall how it exactly happened. We just had idea this is something that we
Jason Hsieh (02:04)
I see.
Roger Hunziker (02:04)
maybe could do ourselves. We always had ideas and tried to do things, you know. So we started
Jason Hsieh (02:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (02:08)
with a first back then it was
more of a concept of an escape room, not in a box, but an escape a mobile escape room that you could build up in your room. Yeah, in the 2018. And
Jason Hsieh (02:14)
okay. I see, I see, I see. Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (02:21)
and then from there this idea just grew and grew and grew. And we
Jason Hsieh (02:25)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (02:25)
needed to build that mobile escape room back then we needed 3D printers to make
little things that we could place. And so we discovered
Jason Hsieh (02:32)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (02:34)
the technology and that technology really brought us to the product that we have today.
Jason Hsieh (02:38)
Mm, I see, I see. I think like in 2018, the 3D printer wasn’t as good compared to today, obviously. Like what are some of the main struggle initially when you’re trying to use 3D printer to come up with different components and products?
Roger Hunziker (02:51)
I would say back then 3D printing was really a
you bought a printer and you worked on the printer as well as the project you have with the printer and you kinda had to have fun with that as well. So
Jason Hsieh (03:01)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (03:02)
yeah, that helps us today because we really had to get into the technological side of 3D printing. So today we have our small print farm that we use for production with much more advanced
the printers.
but we still know the technology. If something breaks or if something new comes to the market, we have the knowledge within the company. So that is great.
Jason Hsieh (03:22)
I see, I see.
And I know all three of you come from a very different background. Can you kind of share how each of you kind of share a different role in the companies and what each of you is good at?
Tom Gerber (03:32)
Yeah, of course, yeah, everyone has a different background, I think which is very helpful. so yeah, but it’s not set in stone that we need to do things in with this background. So everyone yeah, I think the the main thing we have a shared opinion and that helps us a lot so to
Yeah, to work together and those backgrounds help us to challenge each other. So if we develop things, so everyone have a different view on a problem and this helps a lot then also to solve this problems we face in the daily life. Yeah. So me
Jason Hsieh (04:05)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (04:06)
myself, I come from a psychology background and social worker.
Jason Hsieh (04:09)
Yeah. Okay.
Tom Gerber (04:11)
Tom’s yeah, I have a mechanical background. also studied then
Jason Hsieh (04:15)
Okay, very different. Yeah.
Tom Gerber (04:19)
industrial design and
Jason Hsieh (04:21)
okay. Okay, I see.
Tom Gerber (04:22)
Pascal has a financial background.
Jason Hsieh (04:24)
okay, okay, okay. So everyone can work on different aspects of the business as well, a little bit. So
Roger Hunziker (04:29)
same time I think what makes the company work well at least at the moment I think it’s less the differences in the backgrounds it’s more the similarities we have even though we
Jason Hsieh (04:36)
It is
Roger Hunziker (04:38)
come from different backgrounds we share this love for creating something and for
Jason Hsieh (04:42)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (04:42)
making, for innovating and solving
Jason Hsieh (04:44)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (04:45)
problems that kind of unites us and so all the things we do,
Let’s say the exception of finance, which we’re really happy that Pascal has his background.
Jason Hsieh (04:54)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (04:55)
everything else we all do everything. So everybody has
Jason Hsieh (04:58)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (04:59)
of course his little thing he does best and does the most. But at the same
Jason Hsieh (05:02)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (05:02)
time we talk about everything, we share the things, we share our thoughts, we all create, we all
Jason Hsieh (05:08)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (05:08)
use the printers, we all do production and
Jason Hsieh (05:11)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (05:11)
so that’s great, yeah.
Jason Hsieh (05:12)
Okay.
And I want to transition to the product itself because your product is very unique and I know you have a few product sample on hand. Will you mind kind of explaining what Keebox is and kind of show us our audience? And for our audience that’s listening that would like to learn more, feel free to watch our video on YouTube channel to see the product in real life instead of just listening about it as well. So will you mind kind of Roger, showing us how the product works?
Roger Hunziker (05:36)
Happy to do so. So I started with telling you that our initial idea was a mobile escape room. So we took the concept
Jason Hsieh (05:42)
Yes.
Roger Hunziker (05:42)
of an escape room, made it smaller.
Jason Hsieh (05:44)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (05:45)
And what we have today is even much, much smaller than that. So it’s a puzzle box. So it’s an escape room box.
Jason Hsieh (05:49)
Hmm. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (05:52)
at the moment we have four of them. So this is keebox purple, we have keebox blue,
Jason Hsieh (05:56)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (05:57)
we have keebox orange.
Jason Hsieh (05:59)
Okay, okay. Yeah. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:00)
Keebox yellow. So these are the four products we have at the moment. All
of them work in the same way. There are different
Jason Hsieh (06:05)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:06)
difficulty levels, but the way the product is introduced is it says this is an interactive puzzle box. This would be in the instructions.
Jason Hsieh (06:13)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (06:14)
your goal is to find the hidden token. You’re not allowed
Jason Hsieh (06:16)
Mm, okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:17)
to use any external tools or any strong force, you just
Jason Hsieh (06:21)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:21)
solve it by logic, by
finding things by trying out. So the
Jason Hsieh (06:27)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (06:27)
technical term would be a sequential discovery puzzle box, which
Jason Hsieh (06:30)
Okay, I see.
Roger Hunziker (06:31)
kind of means one thing leads to the next. You start with
Jason Hsieh (06:34)
I see, okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:35)
pushing a button or finding a symbol or something. And with by doing this, like I can show you in this box, not much happens at the beginning, but you see you can push this button. So
Jason Hsieh (06:45)
Yeah. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:48)
you would explore from there. You would push the button, see
What else are you now able to do when you push this button? What happens? And from there you
Jason Hsieh (06:54)
Mm-hmm. I see. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (06:55)
go on and on, step by step.
Jason Hsieh (06:57)
I see. And for example, you talk about the four difficulty level. For the easiest
Roger Hunziker (07:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Hsieh (07:02)
difficulty, how long does it usually take for people to solve it?
Tom Gerber (07:05)
takes 20 minutes for the easy one. But it depends
Jason Hsieh (07:08)
Okay.
Tom Gerber (07:08)
of course on the on the experience. And then
Jason Hsieh (07:10)
Okay.
Tom Gerber (07:10)
it goes up a little bit more. And for the yellow one, there it’s really one hour for experienced puzzlers.
Jason Hsieh (07:17)
Okay.
Tom Gerber (07:18)
but if you are not so experienced it can take up to two hours or even
Jason Hsieh (07:23)
Maybe they
just give up after a while, so okay, there’s also a hint on the website. Okay, okay, okay.
Roger Hunziker (07:25)
We have hints on our website. You can look up a hint that leads you to the… We will
not tell you the solution, we’ll just start with telling you where to look and then go a bit deeper and deeper and deeper. Yeah, we have this scale. So say
Jason Hsieh (07:35)
I think. okay, yeah.
Roger Hunziker (07:41)
first box we call it easy peasy. If you’ve
Jason Hsieh (07:44)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (07:44)
never done anything like it, it’s not easy peasy, but we call it easy-peasy. And then it goes up tricky, then a real challenge,
Jason Hsieh (07:48)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (07:51)
then my brain hurts.
And there’s a fifth one on the scale, there’s no product yet for that, and that’s the swearing.
Jason Hsieh (07:56)
Yeah.
okay, okay. So the whole idea is to take it apart and there’s like a token inside that you need to get one by taking the box apart, right?
Roger Hunziker (08:06)
Yes. Yes, kind of like you don’t take it apart in a classical way that you take it all off and at the end there’s just a token left. You just move, some things you could take off. And some
Jason Hsieh (08:16)
Yeah, okay.
Roger Hunziker (08:17)
things will just stay on the box, but you will move them to another place and you will find a tool and will use that tool to open another
Jason Hsieh (08:24)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (08:24)
little door and you’ll find something there. And in the end you find little token. Yeah. And you reset it.
Jason Hsieh (08:27)
I see. Mm, okay, okay, okay.
Roger Hunziker (08:32)
And the reset can
Jason Hsieh (08:32)
I see.
Roger Hunziker (08:33)
be also a little puzzle.
Jason Hsieh (08:35)
the reset is also a puzzle itself by putting it back together. Okay. I see. And
Roger Hunziker (08:40)
Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (08:40)
this is a very unique product. So can you walk us through from the initial idea to prototyping to finalizing? How long does that take your team? So
Roger Hunziker (08:49)
Depends yeah it depends. right now we would say from sitting together and thinking of the first concept of a box.
Jason Hsieh (08:57)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (08:58)
we usually take like two days of a like kind of a kickoff weekend to just say, Hey
Jason Hsieh (09:02)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (09:03)
what do we want this to be, or what difficulty
Jason Hsieh (09:05)
Okay. Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (09:07)
so on, where is it placed within the lineup and then we really discuss
it through once and then we start prototyping, start making it in CAD and producing part by part. And half
Jason Hsieh (09:18)
Part by part, okay, okay.
Roger Hunziker (09:19)
a year I would say, yeah, until it’s ready to launch. And also during this
Jason Hsieh (09:23)
To launch I C and C
Tom Gerber (09:24)
time, very important is to test the different steps. So also we develop some smaller parts of the box, then we test it. Also we test it in our team. And then if we
Jason Hsieh (09:32)
Mm-hmm. I see.
Tom Gerber (09:34)
have a bigger assembling then we also test it with the yeah.
With the right arrangement. Mm-hmm.
Jason Hsieh (09:39)
Mm,
I see, I see, I see. And currently all the product is being 3D printed in Switzerland, correct?
Roger Hunziker (09:45)
100%, yes.
Jason Hsieh (09:46)
Is it on the roadmap to kind of outsource some of the manufacturing to like China or other countries so you can produce more in higher volume or you want to keep everything in Switzerland?
Tom Gerber (09:56)
Yeah, course it’s a topic that’s the pricing at the end.
Jason Hsieh (10:01)
Yeah.
Tom Gerber (10:02)
but we still believe that there is also a way for producing in Switzerland with 3D printing.
Jason Hsieh (10:06)
I see. Mm-hmm.
Tom Gerber (10:09)
And yeah for us it was or it’s very helpful to have the production here in Switzerland also local
because we can then for development for example or if there is any issues we could react and solve things better because if I imagine it’s somewhere else in for example in China, it’s much harder then to
Yeah, to solve problems I would say. And for the..
Jason Hsieh (10:34)
I see that.
Tom Gerber (10:35)
for the state of our company I think it’s very good to have the production local. And yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jason Hsieh (10:40)
Local okay. Yeah. I see,
I see, I see. For a typical box, I have a 3D printer at home. I use a Bambu Lab P2S. I wonder like for one of the box, how many hours does it take to print? Like one box with all the components.
Roger Hunziker (10:54)
It’s many different pieces. So it’s difficult to say because we print like the single pieces, one hundred on one plate, of course. And we
Jason Hsieh (11:01)
okay.
Roger Hunziker (11:02)
would say in average for one full box it would be probably a few hours. The smaller one to I don’t know, would it be five hours? maybe a bit more for all the parts. But we make it more
Jason Hsieh (11:11)
okay. well.
Roger Hunziker (11:13)
Course with printing batches.
Jason Hsieh (11:15)
I see, I see.
you still need to do a manual assembly process, right? After you print out all the components. I see, I see.
Roger Hunziker (11:20)
Absolutely, yeah. There’s
40 parts or something like that.
Jason Hsieh (11:25)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (11:25)
it’s a bit of cleanup of course with 3D printing when if you know the technology, sometimes there’s supports that you have to clean up or
Jason Hsieh (11:32)
Yes, yeah. Sometimes you get stuck when you have too many, too many things. Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (11:36)
Absolutely. There’s all those
things and quality control is also a big thing, like that happens once you take it off the plate. There’s the first step of quality control also. Sometimes parts are not usable. First
Jason Hsieh (11:47)
Yes.
Roger Hunziker (11:48)
layer of a print is not nice. And
Jason Hsieh (11:50)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (11:51)
then yeah, we sort all the parts and then it goes to assembly.
Jason Hsieh (11:54)
Mm-hmm.
I see. How many 3D printer are your location right now that you own?
Roger Hunziker (11:59)
At our location at the moment we have twenty 3D printers and about
Jason Hsieh (12:03)
okay, okay, okay.
Roger Hunziker (12:04)
17 that are pretty much constantly running.
Jason Hsieh (12:07)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (12:07)
And there’s a day shift and a night shift usually. And
Jason Hsieh (12:11)
it’s 24 hours? Okay, okay.
Roger Hunziker (12:13)
Well
that’s a good thing about well, many production sites of course, but also 3D printing.
Jason Hsieh (12:17)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (12:17)
Like we start them in the evening, in the morning there’s another batch ready. Yeah.
Jason Hsieh (12:21)
Mm. Mm.
Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can time it because you know how long it’s gonna print. As long as
Roger Hunziker (12:25)
Exactly.
Jason Hsieh (12:25)
you unless you error out in the middle, sometimes it error out in the middle and you couldn’t finish the print. I run into a few with my 3D print sometimes overnight. So
Roger Hunziker (12:35)
Got them
quite well tuned in so we have almost no fails anymore, but touch on wood
Jason Hsieh (12:39)
okay, good.
Roger Hunziker (12:40)
it works quite well. So we do the a lot of shorter prints during the day when we’re also at slight and the longer prints during the
Jason Hsieh (12:44)
I see. I see.
Roger Hunziker (12:46)
night.
Jason Hsieh (12:47)
I see. I see. I see. And I wanna transition the next question to marketing, because your product is so unique. What are some of the marketing strategy that has been working well for you guys?
Roger Hunziker (12:56)
Explaining
Jason Hsieh (12:57)
Explaining. Okay.
Okay. Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (13:01)
our product we honestly like it brings confusion like also if you hold it the first time and you’ve never seen anything like it, it needs some explanation, which also makes it interesting. People,
Jason Hsieh (13:08)
Yeah. Yes.
Roger Hunziker (13:12)
if they see it they take it in their hands, they look at it and they have to kind of start exploring. But it has to be explained. So maybe
Jason Hsieh (13:17)
Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yeah. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (13:21)
a good example is is the packaging. I mean
Jason Hsieh (13:23)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (13:24)
it started with
Just a cardboard box when it was still a hobby and still produced in a garage. And
Jason Hsieh (13:30)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (13:30)
then we had the first packaging where it was just a little I don’t have it here so I can show it, but it was just pretty much this one, but only a picture
Jason Hsieh (13:39)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (13:39)
said keebox and pretty much nothing else.
Jason Hsieh (13:42)
I see, okay.
Roger Hunziker (13:43)
and then we quickly realized once we were in some brick and mortar shops and we were in stores
People just had no idea what this is. So we had started
Jason Hsieh (13:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Roger Hunziker (13:52)
with writing escape room in a box, find me with a little picture of the token.
Jason Hsieh (13:57)
you can also
consider it to have it like what you’re doing right now, you have an opening so people can touch it too. Yeah. Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (14:02)
We have an opening, the you can see the product. And
we also try to link sometimes to videos that explain the product but don’t spoil it. And
Jason Hsieh (14:10)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (14:11)
yeah, but it’s a challenge, absolutely.
Jason Hsieh (14:13)
Mm, yeah, especially for a product as unique as yours. There’s a lot of user education initially for people to understand what this box is about. So yeah.
Roger Hunziker (14:22)
What
helps in our markets here in Switzerland, there is a few German companies that make similar products with pressed wood.
Jason Hsieh (14:28)
okay. Yes.
Roger Hunziker (14:30)
and they are quite popular. So when we are in shops, we usually
Jason Hsieh (14:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (14:35)
tell the retailers to put our products where they are. So the known product category explains our product kind of
Jason Hsieh (14:39)
next to them. Okay, okay. Yeah.
Mm, okay, okay, okay, okay, makes sense. So they know it’s also a puzzle box or puzzle area.
Roger Hunziker (14:48)
Yeah, people are
already looking for that kind of thing. They’re already in the right corner and then they see ourselves quite different and this is a different challenge.
Jason Hsieh (14:53)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (14:56)
The wooden puzzles have a lot more writing on them and explanation and little hints and we go
Jason Hsieh (15:02)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (15:03)
more in a clean kind of way, more mechanical challenges also.
Jason Hsieh (15:06)
I see, I see. And have you done a Kickstarter campaign for the product yet?
Roger Hunziker (15:11)
We have not, but it’s
something that we plan for the future. Our next product release should be a Kickstarter campaign, yes?
Jason Hsieh (15:17)
okay, okay, okay. Yeah. I think that would be a very interesting product on Kickstarter as well, because like a lot of people want some of the most innovative product when they are backing different campaigns. So and your product is definitely one of the most innovative one I’ve seen in the recent years. So
Roger Hunziker (15:33)
Thank you. some of our competitors who have similar products they have launched through Kickstarter. So we believe that there’s definitely a community on Kickstarter that is looking for products like this. And we’re quite
Jason Hsieh (15:42)
I see, I see, I see.
Roger Hunziker (15:44)
positive that it should work well, hopefully.
Jason Hsieh (15:47)
I
see. And out of all the channel, what are the biggest channels for you guys right now? Is it retail, is it online sales, is it Amazon? Who are you selling like the most right now?
Roger Hunziker (15:56)
we’re not on Amazon. So
Jason Hsieh (15:57)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (15:58)
we look into Amazon a lot, but at the moment that’s not the strategy we go as still a small business. we focus on other channels. it kind of shifted. Like used to be pretty much only online and a lot through our own shop. we started on Etsy, are still on Etsy.
it’s a great way to start if you just have
a simple product or just a single product. So now it’s shifted, yeah. it’s especially in Switzerland we are in a lot of retail shops more and more
I’d say we’re in most of the relevant retail shops in Switzerland they have our products.
Jason Hsieh (16:28)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (16:28)
also one of the big online retailers has our product and I couldn’t tell you the number right now how many
Percentages.
Jason Hsieh (16:37)
And I know last time we met in person was at Nuremberg Toy Fair. since then, how is the international expansion going for your company so far?
Tom Gerber (16:44)
we made a lot of contacts during the fair, so this was really good and we are
Jason Hsieh (16:47)
Yeah, okay. Okay.
Tom Gerber (16:49)
still in contact and there were really a few international new retail stores we now can deliver, which is really good. but of course we are still looking for more. For now we feel it works very well in Switzerland.
Jason Hsieh (17:03)
I see.
Tom Gerber (17:03)
also
the Toy Fair was good to meet people for Switzerland and also get the contacts there. And now yeah, we were able to increase the market in Switzerland, which is nice. And hopefully
Jason Hsieh (17:14)
Okay.
Roger Hunziker (17:15)
soon we can then do the same also in other countries. we gained a few customers like shops in kind of sprinkled all over the world, smaller
Jason Hsieh (17:23)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (17:23)
shops also, which is great. That also always helps. And
Through Nuremberg we also got in contact with Hanayama from Japan. So we are we’re
Jason Hsieh (17:31)
okay, okay. I see.
Roger Hunziker (17:33)
listed in their shop as well. And got
Jason Hsieh (17:35)
okay. Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (17:36)
to the first batch at Hanayama, I think it’s sold out already, so that’s great for us. The Japanese
Jason Hsieh (17:40)
nice. Okay, that’s good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (17:43)
market is interesting for us. we feel like we don’t know the market personally, but we feel like it’s a product that could work well in Japan.
Jason Hsieh (17:51)
Is Hanayama
a retailer? I’m not so familiar with their company setup, so
Roger Hunziker (17:56)
They do different things. Yeah. they produce their own puzzles they’re called Hanayama puzzles. They’re
Jason Hsieh (17:58)
okay. Okay.
Roger Hunziker (18:01)
all over the world. They’re small metal puzzles, really, really well structured, very affordable too.
Jason Hsieh (18:04)
okay. Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (18:07)
so they do that, they’re most well known for that, but they also do distribution and sell through their own web shop and I think
Jason Hsieh (18:15)
I see.
Roger Hunziker (18:16)
I don’t know in detail, I think they also deliver to Japanese brick and mortar stores.
Jason Hsieh (18:20)
Hm, okay,
Roger Hunziker (18:20)
I would guess.
Jason Hsieh (18:21)
okay, okay, okay. I see, I see. I’m actually going back to Japan in a few weeks. I’ll be there for a month. So yeah.
Roger Hunziker (18:26)
Oh interesting.
Jason Hsieh (18:27)
I also speak Japanese fluently, so yeah. Yeah, I’m pretty familiar
Roger Hunziker (18:30)
well.
Jason Hsieh (18:32)
with the Japanese market actually. So
Roger Hunziker (18:34)
interesting. So you would think this is a product that would interest the Japanese?
Jason Hsieh (18:38)
Definitely, yeah. I think this will be a very interesting product for the Japanese marketplace. So for sure. So they like innovative small item. So you kind of fit, you kind of check all the boxes. So it’s small, it’s kind of innovative. it’s very easy to like store. Like the Japanese people doesn’t like big, bulky items as much. So
Roger Hunziker (18:58)
Nice.
Jason Hsieh (18:59)
yeah. So like smaller like puzzle. There’s a lot of like puzzle company in Japan too.
Like different type of
Roger Hunziker (19:04)
Absolutely.
Jason Hsieh (19:05)
so
Roger Hunziker (19:05)
They have an amazing puzzle tradition and culture with the traditional Japanese puzzle boxes and also
Jason Hsieh (19:10)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (19:11)
an amazing company is Karakuri. They make very intricate puzzle boxes. lots of them in the shape of let’s say animals and everyday objects. they’re really, really wonderful, yeah.
Jason Hsieh (19:21)
okay, okay, okay. I’ll check that one now too. That one I haven’t
Roger Hunziker (19:23)
Yes, I think.
Jason Hsieh (19:24)
bought before for Karakuri. So I see.
Roger Hunziker (19:27)
Karakuri.
Jason Hsieh (19:28)
Okay, thank you for sharing that. I’ll check out their website too. so looking ahead here in the next few years, what is you and your co founders’ plan to keep on expanding and growing the business?
Roger Hunziker (19:38)
Well, the main plan is to really make it profitable in a way that it’s sustainable for us to keep the company going. Like to be quite honest, it’s not easy. We have no external investors. We did everything started well simple, like everything started with just a box and we were at back then, no office. we made 40
Jason Hsieh (19:55)
Yeah.
Roger Hunziker (19:57)
of those with one printer. It took a long time. We packaged them and we sent them out. And from there
Jason Hsieh (19:59)
Yeah. I see, yeah.
Roger Hunziker (20:02)
It just got more and more and more. And we never
Jason Hsieh (20:04)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (20:05)
dropped any external money and now we have four boxes, but still these four little boxes. And with that we try to make it work so we can call it our jobs long term, you know. That’s pretty
cool. And the next step in that is launching the next puzzle box within this lineup, within
Jason Hsieh (20:20)
Mm.
Roger Hunziker (20:20)
this keebox lineup that we have right now that we are known for. So
Jason Hsieh (20:24)
I see.
Roger Hunziker (20:25)
The
strategy behind that is we are known now in at least in this community and we wanna kind of
Jason Hsieh (20:29)
Yes.
Roger Hunziker (20:30)
strengthen the brand and
Jason Hsieh (20:31)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (20:31)
build the community. And then from there we also think in developing products within the play and puzzle world that are
Jason Hsieh (20:39)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (20:39)
not necessarily exactly within that lineup of sequential discovery puzzle boxes.
So we have something
Jason Hsieh (20:44)
I see.
Roger Hunziker (20:45)
where we wanna go next. But for that
Jason Hsieh (20:47)
Hmm.
Roger Hunziker (20:48)
we need resources, time and yeah, to get that the next step is Kickstarter to fund
Jason Hsieh (20:53)
Hmm.
Roger Hunziker (20:54)
the next year.
Jason Hsieh (20:55)
I see. Yeah.
Okay. Well thank you for sharing all that. So as well kind of wrapping up today’s interview here, if you have to share just one piece of advice with someone else that’s also getting started within the toys and game industry, what would that be?
Tom Gerber (21:09)
if we could give one advice, it’s really don’t be afraid to start. as Roger said before, for us it was really this 4G boxes of keebox blue we produced and we
Jason Hsieh (21:19)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Gerber (21:19)
sold them and then we got market feedback and this was so important for us. because after that we knew okay, there are people which like our product.
And this was then the opportunity to continue and also yeah.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. without patting our own shoulders, but it needs some bravery to take a product that you
thought of for a long time and it’s kind of something very personal and just put it out there for people to judge, that’s difficult.
Jason Hsieh (21:43)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (21:44)
But you have to take that step. And I would also say like if you like it, then someone else will like it as well. You can be sure that. And you have to find those people by putting it out there.
Jason Hsieh (21:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just take action. That’s very important for sure. So for our audience that’s interested to learn more about your company, your journey, where is the best place for people to find you online?
Roger Hunziker (22:05)
So you can visit our website. This is Keebox, so k-e-e-b-o-x.ch for Switzerland.
Jason Hsieh (22:11)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Hunziker (22:11)
And also our Instagram account is at Keebox Puzzles. and I would say that’s pretty much where you will be updated. We have a newsletter if you want to sign up to that on our website, we will inform about the product launches. But if you follow us on Instagram, you’ll be informed about everything that’s going on.
Jason Hsieh (22:28)
I see. Okay. Well make sure we put that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today, sharing your experience, your journey and some of your knowledge in the industry as well with the audience.
Roger Hunziker (22:38)
Thank you. Thank you.
Jason Hsieh (22:39)
And for our audience, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast. I hope today’s conversation gives you some practical insight and fresh inspiration for growing your own toys or game businesses.
This podcast is sponsored by Toy Launch, a leading marketing and growth partner for Toys and Game Company. At Toy Launch, we help brands scale on Amazon, TikTok, and Shopify’s through full service account management, PPC, SEO, creative, catalog optimization, influencer marketing, and more. If you are looking for a proven team that understands both the toys and game industry and the e-commerce marketing, we are here to help. If you’d like a personalized breakdown of your brand opportunity and the best marketing plan, you can schedule a free consultation session with us.
Just visit our homepage where you can find all the information at toy-launch.com. And if you want to connect with other toys and game founders, feel free to join our brand new free community called Toys and Game Launchpad. You can also find more information at toy-launch.com/group. For more resource, update, and industry insight, visit us at any time on the social media channels. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joys through toys. This is Jason Hsieh.
Signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much. Have a good one.
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