How Formula One Race Nights Became Epic Game Nights

Jason Hsieh (00:00)
Welcome back to another episode of Toy Business Unboxed. Today we have Mark, the CEO of LaCorsa and he used to be the former VP of product design at Vans as well. And in this episode, we’re going to explore his journey from industry into the board game industry and all the different rides he did. He did a successful Kickstarter campaign as well for his brand. And we’ll also like to dive into his vision for the brands and also some of the

challenges he also faced over the years. So thank you so much for being on our podcast today, Mark.

Mark Haskins (00:30)
it’s great to be here, Jason. Thank you.

Jason Hsieh (00:32)
Yeah, so I know you have been spending many years in a different industry before you get into the board game industry. But can you kind of share with your audience what inspired you to shift from like shoes to board game? That sounds like a very different industry.

Mark Haskins (00:43)
Well, yeah, I mean I think the genesis of that story is I was probably more into this idea of, you know, this project before I started even footwear design. And you know, this is sort of a passion of mine. I’m a art center graduate in car design. And so you know, footwear was a great career. but it was something that’s always been on the back of my mind to get this idea out and do it in a

fun way that kind of I don’t know as you get into a footwear career and design management you stop designing and you want to you know you want to create something again and this was an opportunity to do that. So this was really something I’ve always wanted to do and now I think it’s more about working for myself than more than anything is like I’m really enjoying running my own business and still you know

Stepping away from helping other businesses succeed.

Jason Hsieh (01:32)
Yeah, for sure. What year did you make that transition?

Mark Haskins (01:35)
So I mean I did the Kickstarter kind of in parallel with you know, my Vans career in 2016 and I left Vans in two 2023. So, you know, I was there 25 years. I kind of had done it all and this was a way to kind of do my own thing.

Jason Hsieh (01:49)
I see, I see. And I know your whole game design really kind of seam around Formula One. can you also talk about your background and like why are you such a huge fan?

Mark Haskins (01:58)
Yeah. well I’m a car designer. So, you know, Formula One is the pinnacle, I think, of car design in a way. Yes. And so I’ve always been a big fan. You know, I started in the 1980s the turbo era. just lots of fun. And yeah, it was always something I wanted to do something for. I hadn’t seen a lot of really authentic games around Formula One. there’s tons of racing games, but one that talks about that world specifically was interesting to me.

and you know, I think, watching on TV, we talk about, you know, how LaCorsa is influenced by it, but you see, you know, whenever you watch a race, you’ll see the list of positions on the left hand side and as the order of the cars in the race. And that’s really something that I wanted to capture in the game. and how difficult it is to move up that chart. And I think that’s what the game is all about is recreating that simple battle for position.

that you see in a you know Formula One weekend.

Jason Hsieh (02:48)
I see. So for those listening or audience that haven’t played your particular game yet, I think you have a copy with you today. Yeah, that’s right. Kind of show how is it being played, what is the rule, what does the gameplay look like?

Mark Haskins (02:59)
Yeah, I mean it’s a little difficult to explain sometimes, but it is quite simple, but it’s novel. So one of the and we’ll talk about that probably a little bit later when we get to the app, but it’s really just a simple board. And if you think about let’s see if I can show it here. It’s a simple wood board. It folds out. So it

you know, fits nicely in the box. Yeah. but the cars basically are battling for track position. So each one of those spaces represents track position. And okay, you know, mostly it’s a card game where you play your cards and that moves the pieces on the board. And the game is not necessarily the checkered finish line. it’s about staying in front of your rivals.

Jason Hsieh (03:38)
I see. how do you win? Is do you get points through the game?

Mark Haskins (03:41)
Yeah,

it’s a quick game. So you can play in as little as fifteen minutes one race, but I think it’s best played as seven races and you get points for finishing positions. So it’s the old Grand Prix scoring system, nine, six, four, three, two, one for all the positions in the race. And yeah, there’s six cars in the race and they each get a championship.

point allotment for each race. So it’s pretty fun over seven races where you have little dynamic shifts in the competitors’ results. And yeah, I’ll always get quite close finishes actually.

Jason Hsieh (04:11)
I s what is a recommended player, like to

Mark Haskins (04:14)
it’s for two to six players. I think it’s probably best played with three players and you operate two cars each, so you become your own Formula One team that way. and that’s quite dynamic where you’re using one car to help another and get achieve the best possible result. And what probably our favorite way to play is with six players where they each control one race car.

but you divide up into teams and you kind of have a team dynamic with your playing partner.

Jason Hsieh (04:39)
interesting. Okay, okay. So you have like different action card, I assume?

Mark Haskins (04:42)
Yeah, but they’re just it’s really just a game of war honestly over a track position. There’s ways to you know break from the pack and move ahead, but generally you’re just trying to start high for qualifying and move your way through the race and finish in first. you know, sometimes when you’re playing with a teammate like that, you’ll ask them if they can help you achieve your goal. but you’re also totaling up the combined.

points of the two cars. So it makes for a lot of different dynamics. You can race for teams and individual drivers. So you kind of recreate that Formula One teams and drivers championship.

Jason Hsieh (05:15)
I see. Can you also sabotage other players?

Mark Haskins (05:18)
Absolutely. I mean, one of the fun parts about the game is that you’re playing head to head for every position. So I see we were just playing last night and you know, I know there’s a particular competitor of mine that’s a little bit tougher than the rest. So I play him a little bit differently than I do the rest of the players. it’s a little bit like poker, you know, you’re kind of bluffing a little bit and you’re playing certain guys a little bit tougher than you would the others. Yeah.

Jason Hsieh (05:41)
I see. Okay. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, I would definitely want to try one of you the one of your games on tapes. I haven’t tried it myself yet. So let’s go back to talk about your Kickstarter experience, you know, what worked for you and like are you still launching Kickstarter like this year

Mark Haskins (05:56)
Yeah, I’m not really on the Kickstarter platform as much anymore. you know, I think as people know who have tried it, it’s you know, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work. I think it prepares you for business very well. I it gets you kind of, you know, dealing with customers and feedback. And it’s a fantastic platform to be honest. but it does require a lot of work. And once you have a

fan base, I think it’s maybe easier to launch products through your email marketing and your social media marketing. but you know it depends how different your product is. we keep launching things that are you know work with the La Corsa game. So that’s kind of appeals to our base already. but yeah, it’s quite a adventure. I mean, I think I did mine for 30 days.

which I don’t even know if that’s the recommended length anymore. I’ve seen shorter ones now. but you know, you’re addressing issues every day and making sure that your followers and your supporters are taken care of. So and it’s you know, I think it’s a great feedback loop in in that sense. the one thing I’ve learned from Kickstarter was you need

You need marketing for that too. it’s a great marketing vehicle, but you got to come in prepared. You have to come in with you know, a nice base of of fans already that are into your idea before you even launch. So, you know, our first campaign failed and then it was on the second launch that we, you know, we tailored the campaign, but we also had that installed base a little bit better, which went towards it.

Jason Hsieh (07:18)
The thing is just become so competitive. You really need to have a pre launch strategy, otherwise it’s not gonna go very well. Yeah.

Mark Haskins (07:25)
I mean this was this was 2016 and of course a lot has changed with the platform. But yeah, it just I think in general, for business, you can’t underestimate marketing at any stage in the game. You know, whether you’re going on Kickstarter or where you’re doing social media, it requires a lot of work, a lot of effort. because people just they haven’t heard about you. every time I’m worried about the business, it’s because we’re not getting the word out well enough.

Jason Hsieh (07:49)
Mm. Yeah. So on the marketing side, just to follow up, what are some of the strategy that’s working for well for the brand?

Mark Haskins (07:55)
well I think you know we’ve we really launched our business in 2020 during the pandemic. Okay. we started doing paid ads on Meta. So Okay. You know, initially more Facebook. Now I think it’s more Instagram. is kind of where our followers are. But that really launched the business for all intents and purposes, where we, you know, we okay, we’re gonna need to order more games. that was kind of a nice feeling and

our strategy hasn’t changed that much. We’ve we have advertised on ESPN during Formula One races. just in local markets, but just to kind of test and do a little bit of brand marketing and help our authenticity and our connection to the sport. I would say now, you know, that’s not a great return on investment. So we probably don’t do it as much anymore, but it is fun to

Jason Hsieh (08:25)
Okay.

Mark Haskins (08:40)
have an ad during a race weekend. it it feels pretty good, yeah.

Jason Hsieh (08:44)
I see, I see. It’s hard to track, I feel like, because I’m so used to digital marketing the new way. The T V ads is pretty hard to track like the performance.

Mark Haskins (08:52)
It’s hard to track and it’s a changing landscape as well. So you know, there’s streaming apps, is it YouTube TV, is it cable? there’s too many ways, you know, that it’s too scattered. So you’re not really getting a good imprint, you know, in my opinion, especially if you’re not spending, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. I think it’s a little bit harder to have an impact. But yeah, I think a lot needs to be sorted out in that industry and consolidated before it really is.

Is a good idea for small companies. that’s my opinion. you know, my limited knowledge of it, but I think that’s kind of our perspective from a brand point.

Jason Hsieh (09:24)
Yeah, I agree. Unless you have big budget, you just don’t have like enough data to really make a difference. Whereas like the meta ads is a little bit more nimble. You can start with twenty dollar a day.

Mark Haskins (09:35)
Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what we did is like, this is curious, you know, let’s try this. And you know, and then you start, maybe I should have a professional, you know, manage this. And that’s really where we saw a lot of success initially.

Jason Hsieh (09:46)
Mm, I see, I see. And I also want to go back to the design of your product because if you have one of the pieces with you then so people I think your design is very unique compared to some other board games in the industry.

Mark Haskins (09:54)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well,

Yeah,

so we’ll see if we can get this on there. But these are these are very simple pieces, but they’re quite nice. They’re shiny and beautiful like every Formula One car should be. But really it’s just a it’s a simple injection molded piece. but we did concentrate on these parts themselves more than you know having a million components or it’s very just it’s really about the cars.

These are sort of an exaggeration of 1960s, you know, Formula One cars, made famous by John Frankenheimer in the movie Grand Prix. They’re just like these, you know, simple cigar shapes, really classic. and we do them in all the, you know, all the sort of national racing colors. the British racing green, Italian, Italian red, and we got sort of our Japanese racing white as well.

Jason Hsieh (10:39)
okay, okay.

Mark Haskins (10:40)
So, you know, all the good stuff, they all have meaning. now we sell, you know, race car sets to expand, you know, the kind of cars that you can race. we’ve got papaya orange coming out next month. that’s a reissue and that’s highly anticipated just because McLaren are so, so popular and winning so much right now. It’s like everyone’s been waiting for those to be re-released. so

We try to engage with Formula One culture in that way. really through the cars and through the, you know, the beauty of the beauty of the sport.

Jason Hsieh (11:09)
I see. Are you also trying to build like your own community around that kind of sub niche of yours?

Mark Haskins (11:14)
Yeah, I think so. We absolutely. I mean, we get race fans. so you know the Venn diagram of our consumer is, you know, gamers who are also into Formula One. And we go to trade shows, we kind of see that we kind of see those people kind of pop up. You get they they kinda come by the booth or our stand and like “you guys keep showing up on my feed. I don’t know why.” And

’cause you like Formula One, and like I’m a huge Formula One fan, you know. So we really connect with those people and you know, it’s a game that if you’re a Formula One fan and you have friends who maybe are not big gamers or even big Formula One fans themselves, it’s a it’s a game to sort of introduce that kind of racing to them. You know, a fun racing game that you don’t have to know a million things about Formula One, but it does capture the spirit in an authentic way.

Jason Hsieh (12:01)
Hm, I see.

Mark Haskins (12:02)
that

is partly through the design. And you know, I’m a modern design geek. So everything, you know, everything Bauhaus and after is fair game for me to include in this. And, you know, we have like Italian racing posters that were inspiring, you know, some of the card art. the graphic design itself is very minimal and yeah just very simple and kind of echoes back to the all sorts of different you know eras in motorsport.

Jason Hsieh (12:27)
Do you did all the design yourself?

Mark Haskins (12:30)
Yeah, yeah. everything’s me. So you know, with that car design background, you know, the forms of the cars were pretty simple for me to execute. as a graphic designer, that’s not necessarily my specialty, but I know what I like and you know I can produce that. it’s super fun. And yeah, just being an industrial designer in general, I think, leads to, you know, good packaging decisions. It’s a you know, it’s a very

compact game, everything fits nicely in the box, but you get a lot in that small package.

Jason Hsieh (12:56)
Hmm, I see. What has been some of your biggest takeaway running this business now for full time?

Mark Haskins (13:02)
Well, it’s I mean, it’s a lot of work but it’s super fun. I mean, it’s exactly what I want to be doing with my time. there’s a lot of great collaborators that are coming in the you know, the next twelve months and really engaging with partners and in the world of motorsport, it’s a great place to be. I’m stoked to do it. And you know, I like having fun with my friends. You know, we do we do a

game night or a race night, we call them, here at the house. And we film it for content and we test new rules and, you know, make sure everything’s running smoothly. but mostly we just have a great time. So that’s the key to the business and from my standpoint. you know, I’m learning lots about logistics and inventory and marketing, especially as I’ve noted. But it’s really about having a good time around, you know, things you’re passionate about.

Jason Hsieh (13:46)
I would like to dive into a little bit more about the game night that you just mentioned and how are you turning that into content. So do you have the camera set up as you’re around the table?

Mark Haskins (13:55)
A little bit a little bit. I mean, it’s pretty casual, but we have some lighting set up and you know we just get different guys every night. I mean I think the one issue I have personally is that we’ve got a bunch of 50 year old men around the table and to do other kinds of content, you know, I have to hire outside. But it’s nice to have a group of friends that want to be, you know, be here playing and we’ve got a pretty nice setup here and

You know, my daughter will do a little bit of filming. she has a shot list that she’ll go through. I mean, she’s you know, she’s only sixteen, but there’s a few shots that we want and we know to get and you know, players’ reactions and playing cards and you know, cars moving on the board, they all look super cool. So those are the kind of things we try to capture. but I think the main thing you want to communicate is that, you know, people are having fun playing the game and having her take the photos allows me to

to to have fun myself and get that captured.

Jason Hsieh (14:46)
Yeah, that’s a very good strategy. I think that’s something I wanna like to share and kind of in encourage other people in the industry to create more content because right now digital marketing content is really the key. Without the content you couldn’t really do much on the market.

Mark Haskins (15:00)
Absolutely.

And it can be fun too. You know, and with these expansions, we keep adding rules and layers and it gets a little bit more in depth to to real Formula One strategy with pit stops and accidents. But it it’s good to be testing the gameplay every week and coming up with solutions and adding more. You know, for each race car set, we add a house rule essentially as a track card. So

We’re constant now that I need all these race car sets, we keep producing new colors. we need a new house rule, you know, every time we launch one. So we’re constantly trying to come up with something fun that adds a new wrinkle to the game.

Jason Hsieh (15:34)
Mm, okay, okay. And I know the one thing we talked about before the interview, you’re also exploring like digital platform like an app. Can you talk a little bit about it?

Mark Haskins (15:43)
Yeah,

well it’s a yeah, it’s not an easy process. it’s a long development lead time and not so much a challenge of you know building the game or making it look right. I mean, I think our graphic design lends pretty well to the way I want the game to look and feel. but we do get a lot of requests for you know people wanting to play the game solo and without a little bit of intelligence to the you know opposition cars.

it’s a little difficult to write rules for that and becomes a little bit more random. So yeah, an app is a great way to, you know, have that, have just a little bit of game logic built into the AI representation and the cards that you play. but the other thing too is because La Corsa is novel in terms of its gameplay, people sometimes get tripped up on how to play exactly and each of the steps, you know, to get started.

And an app is great because it leads you through it. It leads you through the gameplay. So you automatically will pick up how to play La Corsa from the app, which is kind of a problem solver for our you know our own requirements as a business.

Jason Hsieh (16:44)
Is that gonna be like a freemium model where they can download the app for free? But if they want to unlock some feature they need to pay.

Mark Haskins (16:51)
Yeah, exactly. So it’ll be a free app. I don’t think we’ll have ads. it will be supported by race cars essentially. So you’ll get the standard set of cars just like you do in the real game. But if you want to add your own, you know, favorite teams colors and things like that, then those will be in app purchases. so you can play the game completely without paying, which is you know, that’s where it becomes a tool.

I think that’s useful for the business. and if people, you know, respond well to it and want to go deeper, they can. And there’s some really great achievements that you can unlock, special cars and some stuff like that. So, you know, if you get a lot of race wins, you’ll get, you know, something a little bit more special that you can race with in the future. you know, one of the big complications with all these things is building you know, like a

way to connect with friends and building a group of players that you can connect with. And that’s been the trickiest part of building an app. you know, it really is like having friends, you know, authenticated and everybody joining the game at the same time. Those are kind of complicated issues with apps. And that’s partly the reason it’s taken a while to develop.

Jason Hsieh (17:51)
I see. And I I think I talked to other guests on the show that also have like a cross like a digital version crossover. But it’s always a challenge to create that digital version of the the

Mark Haskins (18:02)
Yeah, nothing is easy. I mean, we’ll see if it really gets better with AI computing. you know, I think that’s pretty good for simple apps, but we’re talking about, you know, gameplay can be complicated. And even writing you know, game logic for the cars, for the AI cars is difficult. You really have to think through your game and know exactly how it’s played and why people are good at certain things. And eventually we’ll be able to

build different characters and driving styles for the different AI players. For now we’re just happy that it kind of knows how to play the game and play the appropriate card at the right time. Yeah.

Jason Hsieh (18:36)
I see. And for our listener that’s also interested to have like a digital like version of their games, where do you start? Do you just first reach out to freelancer that can do app development? Well, how do you start?

Mark Haskins (18:47)
Yeah, well I mean we started with friends of the game who are programmers. and they were doing it as a side project, which was awesome. And they were great guys but we just weren’t making progress fast enough. You really do need in my opinion, you need to hire some professionals that know how to spend a lot of time on your app and you know, you’re gonna pay them accordingly, unfortunately. But

I think it’s worth it if you really want a a nice product at the end. and so you know, you have to go with recommendations and we found someone through another contact and it’s working out great. So you know, we’re still we’re still you know maybe a couple months away from introducing it, but we’re very excited. I think we’ll have a a good product when we launch.

Jason Hsieh (19:27)
I see. How long how how long is this process? Six months? Nine months?

Mark Haskins (19:31)
yeah, they always say it’s gonna be six months, but it’s like building a house, I think. It’s you know, it’s usually about double what it what what you think it’s gonna take. So yeah, we’re I think we’re about a year into it now. Very, very close. but you know, every game is gonna have its its novel problem that needs to be solved for the developer. you know, for ours the gameplay wasn’t too bad. the logic was a little bit trickier.

and you know, in general, like it’s really about if you want to create groups of people that can play together regularly, then, you know, and not just against AI, but actually matchmake against other people that are out there, that’s a little bit more intensive. Yeah.

Jason Hsieh (20:07)
Okay, okay, okay. so you’re looking beyond, what are some of the next things on your horizon and your roadmap?

Mark Haskins (20:14)
Well, I think we’re pretty happy where we’re at. we’re growing really nicely and we’re super excited about this, you know, this holiday season. for next year we’ll continue to release you know, new sets. I think eventually I’d like to take some of the expansion rules and put them into a basic core game as well. maybe concentrate on a different era of racing.

You know, some time ago we made 3D printed 70s cars, which were very popular. and I think a different version of the game that maybe is a little bit, you know, has crashes and pit stops to begin with, would be good as an introductory set with around a different kind of theme, you know, race car theme. Also Formula One, but just a different period. There’s so many great periods. I love you know, I love

the group C cars from the from the eighties, you know, the in endurance racing. So there’s a lot of options to take this gameplay and apply it to, you know, similar but different genres of racing. I think for now that’s exciting enough.

Jason Hsieh (21:10)
Hm, I see, I see. Thank you for sharing some of your future plan as well. And as we’re kind of wrapping up today’s interview, if you have to share one piece of advice with someone that’s just getting started within the toys and game industry, what would that be?

Mark Haskins (21:22)
So many. You know, I’ve mentioned marketing quite a bit. don’t ever underestimate it. it’s absolutely key to your business. you know, you just have to be patient. I think it’s true what they say in terms of, you know, building your business. It really is just step by step, you know, as you learn something every day, you’re improving in every aspect of it. And what you

What you build, you continue to build on top of. So it’s a layered process. You get your website working well, then you’re, you know, you’re layering on marketing, you’re layering on logistics. But all the work that you’ve done in the past is, you know, has got you to where you are now and you just keep adding to it. And I think that’s part of the fun of it. you know, the world’s changing pretty fast. But if you’re building something solid, you know, it’s a great foundation and it’s just

Bit by bit, you do a little bit every day and you get better.

Jason Hsieh (22:08)
Yeah, I agree. I think it’s about stacking different strategy, different things you implement. One of the common problems I see talking to some entrepreneur is instead of stacking, they kind of jump one shiny object to another without fully finish the last one. And that is the mistake you don’t want to repeat. You want to make sure the last project actually finished and have a decent implementation to it.

Mark Haskins (22:28)
I totally agree with that. there’s a lot of bright things out there. I mean you know we’ve been very cautious as well, you know, like just like we’re not on Amazon, we’re just direct to consumer, we do stuff with uncommon goods, and we’re on fare. So we you know, people can, you know, game small game shops and the like can buy us you know for wholesale pricing. But we don’t really wanna get

too far ahead of ourselves too quickly. you know, we’re building a a very steady business and step by I think we continue to see, you know, awesome results, but we don’t really want to quite jump ahead. I’ve seen I’ve seen you probably have too, Jason, where someone will, you know, get a big contract with a target or something like that. And you know, those that’s those are risky days. You’re risking it all to kind of fall through on that. You know,

If they withdraw their order or they, you know, you have another issue like that, you could be in real trouble. So it’s better to build a strong foundation and just add things you know, step by step.

Jason Hsieh (23:23)
Yeah, for definitely for sure, for sure. And thank you so much for the time today, sharing your story, your knowledge, your wisdom, and your journey within the toys and game industry.

Mark Haskins (23:31)
Hey, thanks so much, Jason. Yeah, great, great to talk to you again.

Jason Hsieh (23:34)
And for our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast. We hope you have enjoyed today’s conversation and find it insightful and inspiring. If you like what you have heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate your support and would love it if you can leave us a review and share the podcast with your friend and colleague. For more resource, tips and the latest update within the toys and game industry, visit our website at toys-launch.com.

Join the conversation and connect with us on social media using #ToyBusinessUnboxed. We’d love to hear your feedback and suggestion for future episodes. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joys through toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone.