How to Create Engaging Travel-Friendly Games

Jason Hsieh (00:42)
Welcome back to another episode of Toy Business Unboxed. ⁓ Today’s guest is Mathue the founder of Envy Born Game, an indie publishing company known for its Tiny Game series, fun travel-friendly game designed for board gamers on the go. We’ll what it’s going to take to develop a compact yet engaging board game, challenge behind productions, distribution, and the ever-changing landscape of tariff and other issues that we all face.

in the toys and games industry. And thank you again for being on our podcast today, Mathue

Mathue Ryann (01:12)
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here and talk board games.

Jason Hsieh (01:16)
Of course. first of all, will you mind sharing with our audience like your background? Like what, what was the story behind like you starting this company?

Mathue Ryann (01:23)
Yeah, absolutely. So it wasn’t really something I planned 100%. So I lived in Las Vegas for 13 years, and I bartended most of that time out. So I used to like compete in cocktail competitions. So it was a real passion of mine. And one day I decided to make a drinking party educational game and just kind of started to take that day by day and figure out how to do it.

And that kind of evolved into where I am now. But it was just something I wanted to do with a cousin because I thought it would be a fun thing. yeah, just kind of just got legs and ran from there.

Jason Hsieh (01:57)
I see. And what was the first game you developed under the company?

Mathue Ryann (02:02)
⁓ Actually, that’s that game right there called Don’t Get Drunk. It’s the drinking party game. It actually sells on Amazon still.

Jason Hsieh (02:11)
OK, OK, And what was the process look like for you guys when you were developing your first game?

Mathue Ryann (02:16)
So I probably made every mistake ever when I made my first game and launched it. But the process, just, for me, went into it really ignorant, not knowing what it required and what it would take. But I was very determined. And every time I got to a new subject, I would just learn about it for that week. I would take each step of development or what it takes to self-publish a game. And I would…

focus on that for a week and learn about it. I would go online, search about it, join different Facebook groups and try and ask questions and things like that. it was very much a lot of like making mistakes and then just pushing through basically.

Jason Hsieh (02:53)
What are some of the lessons or mistakes that you have learned along the way?

Mathue Ryann (02:58)
I really learned how important as an indie publisher marketing is. You really have to build a community and really get your game in front of people and be known before you try and go live with it. The first time I went live, I basically didn’t do much of that and it showed in the end results and but I still made it work from there.

Jason Hsieh (03:17)
I see, So can you also talk about some of the reasons why you have been focusing on tiny travel-friendly games?

Mathue Ryann (03:24)
Yeah, sure. here’s actually some of them. They’re these little sideways. There you go. No, upside down. Yeah. Here’s two of them. And I have a third and we have a fourth and more in the works. So it kind of happened. Again, I was kind of taking some pitches. A friend of mine showed me sirens.

And I fell in love with it. I the design was really clever. It had some fun musical elements to it. And I was like, I want to do this. And I know there’s smaller games. At the time, I was familiar with tin box games and button shy games, which are little wallet games. And I was like, I don’t want to exactly copy them either. And I was like, I want to have a little shelf presence. So that’s why I decided to go into a box to keep it small. But it would still have a little shelf presence.

From there, I had the one game and I was like, you know, it’s going to be really hard. I launched most of my games through crowdfunding platforms at Kickstarter. Yeah. And my thought process is like, it’s going to be really hard to raise a lot of money or have a campaign that looks really good from the outside, like to have a higher funding goal with just one tiny game because, you know, it’s only a $15 game.

So you need a lot of backers to make that look like a big number. And not only that, when I’m running my marketing and I’m building out of Kickstarter page or having a video meet, expenses are going to be the same for me, whether I’m doing, like a $15 game or a $50 game. So, you know, the cost of a video is the cost of a video. The cost of my landing page is the cost of my landing page. Now I have three extra games on that landing page. Well, it starts to help with a little bit of that return on investment. So.

From there, I was like, let me make more. And then that did well. And I was like, I want to keep making small games. And that’s where I’m at now. I have three new ones launching later this year as well.

Jason Hsieh (05:13)
⁓ okay, okay, got it. And if you can take one of your best seller ⁓ out of all the other ones that you have, which one is the best seller right now?

Mathue Ryann (05:21)
Right now, the best seller is probably Confusing Lands. This one is doing really well. It’s doing well on BGG as far as the rankings go for my games. It’s actually up for an Origins Award, which is a competition. Yeah, so it’s a finalist in Light Strategy game. But it’s been really well received. We’re actually doing an expansion for it.

That can turn the game right now to one to two player game, but the expansion and turn it into a one to four player game or it can be played alone as a one to two player game. So I one’s really well for us.

Jason Hsieh (05:53)
For our audience that was not familiar with the game, can you also give like a one minute explanation of how the game…

Mathue Ryann (05:59)
Sure,

so confusing lands. It’s a 18 card game. It has a manual that’s folded It’s one page, which is awesome. So it’s quick to learn Okay, basically on one side of the card There’s always going to be a cloud and clouds are how you can score games in this or how you can score points in this game and then the other side are Icons like trees or mountains or gems and what’s gonna happen is throughout the game You’re going to be dealt cards and you have to use those cards

⁓ and create a little floating world with them. So you would place a card down and then when you get a new card, you have to cover at least one space. You can cover more, but what you’re trying to do is have rivers flow past mountains or mountains on the edge of your world. So when you’re placing these cards down that you’re getting, you’re trying to make them score the most amount of points based off of the clouds that you’ve put into your world as well, which are the way that you get scoring opportunities. But typically at conventions, I can show people

teach people and show them around within like a minute and a half and then they can play it from there.

Jason Hsieh (07:00)
⁓ okay. Got it. Okay. And what are some of the feedback you’re getting from the, you know, the retail store and the consumer with your tiny game series so far?

Mathue Ryann (07:10)
people love them. Tiny Games are doing really well for retailers. They’re in like an impulse buy range for lot of customers, know, sub $20. Really, once you go over that $20, it’s more of like a decision process, right? So they’re great for impulse buys. They’re good because they’re travel size, and they’re quick to play too. So a lot of these games, there’s a lot of great games out there, and the more expensive ones are awesome, but

They take a while to set up. They take a while to learn. They take a while to actually play or have friends to play with. So it’s hard to table some of these games sometimes. With little ones like this that can accommodate a one player option, you could play them on your own if you want to or quickly with somebody else. But overall, very good.

Jason Hsieh (07:49)
I see. ⁓

And since you have different ones in the series, does it also play with each other as well, like inside the series?

Mathue Ryann (08:00)
So all the games are different themes and different mechanisms, meaning they play differently. In one game, it’s card drafting, while the other is a spatial awareness kind of puzzle game. They won’t play together at all. They’re all their own separate experience. But they are all in the same series. They actually all have a number on the spine of them there. You can collect them all.

Jason Hsieh (08:23)
Yeah.

Mathue Ryann (08:24)
And like I said, we have three more launching later this year, and we actually have three more that are signed and need to start development as well. So it’s a line that we’re going to keep supporting, bringing a new game experience and a new theme with each one.

Jason Hsieh (08:36)
OK. Nice, nice, nice. That’s a lot of product development that you have. What has been some of the biggest challenge in manufacturing and distributing those games?

Mathue Ryann (08:43)
me busy.

So I think when I first started, manufacturing was like really a big area that I didn’t understand. Now, obviously, I’ve been doing it for a while, so I do. But at first, I worked with kind of like a middle person instead of directly with the manufacturer, which cost, you know, made things way more expensive for me. But now I work directly with manufacturers. I have to meet my manufacturers at conventions that I go to a lot, like GAMA or Gen Con or Origins.

So at first that was kind of like, an issue. then what it came down to is communication price point, were important to me when it came to manufacturing. So like if I’m sending somebody a question and then they take two to three weeks to get back to me, I’m probably not going to work with them. Now don’t expect the manufacturer to respond to me in a day, you know, like if it’s a couple of days, that’s fine. But I like there to be good communication.

Obviously, the price point has to be good as well. And then I also like to just ask like, hey, what are some ways we could enhance this element of the game through different manufacturing techniques or components you have? So creative ideas as well helped me make decisions. Because there’s some things, obviously, I understand manufacturing better now, but I’m not an expert in the different materials and opportunities and things that are possible. So I like that as well.

With distribution, that’s still something that I’m working on quite a bit, actually. So I don’t work directly with any distribution centers, like ACD or Alliance or GTS. It’s something I’d like to establish. But typically, it’s hard to get into direct distribution until you have quite a few games in your catalog or you have some major hits.

I work with a consolidation partner right now. They’re called Corner Master Direct. And they represent a bunch of small indie publishers at once. And what they’ll do is they have vendor accounts with these large distribution centers. So they sell on your behalf, essentially. And then they kind of take a piece of it. They also sell directly to some retailers. And then I myself am working on establishing direct distribution.

Vendor accounts with some distribution centers. I met with some at GAMA So that was a great business to business opportunity to meet people. And then I worked directly with some retailers as well. And then outside of that, the biggest way I get the games into people’s hands are through conventions, e-commerce, Amazon. yeah, those are the three big ways or crowdfunding.

Jason Hsieh (11:16)
Yes, yes, yes for Amazon I believe you are doing that in-house right now, right with your own team

Mathue Ryann (11:22)
so I run my own Amazon shop. I did recently. He’s a friend that has a like Amazon marketing firm. him recently. And he’s been kind of explaining the process a little bit to me more and how to run ads. And it’s been nice to see how it actually works. And he’s been doing a great job. We’ve been seeing an uptick in the sales. But I do I do all my own warehousing here. So I’ll often

⁓ send product to Amazon for FBA or if we run out of stock of something like I’ll fulfill for my house until we get stock back in at Amazon.

Jason Hsieh (11:57)
Yeah, Amazon is definitely a tricky platform. There’s a lot of like hidden things you need to know for SEO advertising, listing, optimization. And that’s, that’s something we do on a daily basis with our own team here at Toy Launch as well. It’s not an easy platform and they always change their rules.

Mathue Ryann (12:14)
It’s always changing. It’s like now all of sudden you’re in violation of TOS. It’s when you want to be an indie publisher, like you really have to become an expert of everything and like wear every hat. Like you’ve got to figure this stuff out and go through it. Like you could have a full-time job just doing Amazon. There’s so much to that platform, you know, but then you also need to

learn manufacturing and ocean freight and product development and hiring artists and illustrators and graphic designers. you know, so you understand this, but yeah, there’s a lot into it. You have to wear every hat.

Jason Hsieh (12:47)
It’s just like any other real business that you run. There’s a lot of different aspects we need to know. besides Amazon, obviously you mentioned about crowdfunding and are you also doing any other digital marketing like influencer marketing or any other marketing?

Mathue Ryann (13:02)
Yeah,

so I will run mostly paid Facebook ads. For me specifically with board games, there’s a website called Board Game Geek that is like a giant database of board games that the hobbyist side of it is really familiar with. And sometimes depending on the game, I’ll run ads with them or banners. They’re really good at that. I will also work with content creators. Some content creators are paid, some are free.

Some are just friend. I’ve become pretty friendly with a lot of them content creators now and They’re great people, you know to work with and they’re doing a lot for the industry to help it grow which is awesome But yeah, and then I do all my own organic posting so like I have my own TikTok account and my own Facebook reels and YouTube shorts, you know Instagram reel all of it, but I post I just try and post a lot of like funny board game

related content and then every now and then or when I’m launching a new product, then I’ll talk a lot more about what I’m doing.

Jason Hsieh (13:59)
I see. We haven’t been working directly with Board Game Geek. how does the marketing platform usually work? Do you buy for a placement?

Mathue Ryann (14:10)
Yeah,

Board Game Geek has a lot of great opportunities in there. They also have two conventions throughout the year, one in the spring and one in the wintertime. They’re in the Dallas area, it’s basically a big database of board games. So if I’m launching a new game, I’ll create a profile for it on there. People can see it. They’ll reference it. They can understand and learn about the game there.

see videos or images of the game and content creators can post their stuff there as well. And there’s different forums for if you’re buying stuff, selling stuff, have questions about stuff, working on something. But it’s all board game centralized and it has every publisher ever, every designer ever. So you can look things up, learn about different games. And then they offer some marketing services on their platform specifically with

You know, some of them are like a banner on their website. Some of them is an email blast to go out to certain email lists that they have. Some is a crowdfunding spotlight. So there’s a bunch of different options to look at and consider. I would say in my experience with games, games that are a bit heavier and more, I don’t know, for lack of a better word, more of like a hobby style game or like heavier, more strategic.

Yeah, my experience have done better there than something that’s a little light because that’s the audience that’s there is this really dedicated board game fan base. So

Jason Hsieh (15:32)
I see

Yeah, compared to more like family-central games. Yeah.

Mathue Ryann (15:36)
I mean, don’t get me wrong, they’re all on there, right? But I feel like the core of that audience is like really diehard board game fanatic fans that just love heavy, kind of really strategic games. You have a mix of everything for sure, but I think that’s the core there.

Jason Hsieh (15:52)
I see, And I think conventions are also huge for a lot of the board games. What are some of your favorite conventions to attend?

Mathue Ryann (15:59)
man, my favorite convention is probably Gen Con, which is in Indianapolis in August. It’s my favorite because it’s the biggest in the US that’s board game specific. And also I get to vend there and I do really well, which is awesome because more people get to play my game, which is fun and exciting. I also really like Pax Unplugged,

it’s usually in December. This year It’s going to be in November, but that’s in Philadelphia towards the end of the year. Yeah, and that’s a really great convention as well. I’m actually from the East Coast South Jersey area, so it’s nice to get to see friends and family when I go back. ⁓ Yeah, and then I’m a big fan of Origins as well, which is in Columbus, Ohio, and that’s. That’s a convention that GAMA runs and gamma is basically like a.

Jason Hsieh (16:35)
Okay, nice.

Mathue Ryann (16:45)
board game trade group organization. It’s basically an area for everyone in this industry to have a membership and help each other. So that’s great. And then there’s tons of smaller ones that are great. So BGGCon. I just got back from one called TokenCon that was in Oklahoma. It was pretty small, but it was a great audience. People were happy. People were playing games. It was really fun. I’ve done Dice Towers, which are great

Jason Hsieh (17:08)
Dice tower, yeah.

Mathue Ryann (17:09)
So many small ones, you know, and they’re all great. conventions are work for me, but I also really genuinely enjoy them. Like I do have fun at them too, but I am working.

Jason Hsieh (17:20)
I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that’s the fancy about being in the toys and game industry, right? You’re kind of working, but you also having fun at the same time.

Mathue Ryann (17:27)
Yeah

like, I gotta play this game. no, I’m working though.

Jason Hsieh (17:31)
Yeah, for sure. And the other thing I think you also created is you also create like accessory product besides the card games and the board game you have can you also talk a little bit about the TCG accessory that you created?

Mathue Ryann (17:47)
Yeah, so obviously TCG’s trading card games. All that stuff is really big in the industry and doing really well. And there’s all kinds of adjacent products to CGGs like sleeves and, you know, hard plastic holders for them. And yeah. So what we came up with or it was my, have a silent partner who this was a product that he kind of discovered and brought on board, but it’s a TCG accessory where

It helps you to know if the centering of your card is good. So this way Before you send it to get a PSA graded which costs money Obviously, you can make sure the centering of the card is good first if the centering is not good Then you know, you really shouldn’t pay to go send it in to get graded because it’s not gonna get a great score. So But that one’s been doing well for us. Yeah, we have a thickness tool as well because obviously there’s different thicknesses to card So you need different sleeves for them?

that we also developed for them.

Jason Hsieh (18:41)
I see, yeah, that’s definitely a very unique product. How do you come up with that idea?

Mathue Ryann (18:46)
Yeah, that was something that my partner kind of he found that product and kind of that was his baby for the company basically that he brought on board. So we’ll have to get him on the show next time. For me, was like, all right, I’ll like let’s let’s onboard this product and start selling it. And, you know, we created our Amazon listings, we bring it to conventions, we send it to retailers, so and it was good.

Jason Hsieh (19:09)
Yeah, and I think that’s also one of your best sellers right now too, right?

Mathue Ryann (19:13)
Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely, it’s definitely a good product and TCG’s, you know, they’re huge. There’s so many great ones out there. I try to avoid them because I don’t want to lose all my money and spend all my money on them. So I’m very careful about getting involved with them often. I do love the Star Wars TCG. ⁓ I’m guilty of that.

Jason Hsieh (19:31)
I see. Yeah, actually, I have another trading card company on the podcast recently as well. The industry is definitely like the whole different like a mini industry in itself. Within the toys and game industry, And, you know, developing TGC is very different than developing the board game. There’s a lot of like balance and different things you need to consider when you’re introducing new cards and you know, there’s a lot.

Mathue Ryann (19:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

as far as making a TCG, I wouldn’t even attempt it myself. More power to the people that are doing that. That’s not in my wheelhouse, unfortunately. I have my hand full with all these tiny games over here, you know?

Jason Hsieh (20:07)
Hmm

Yeah, well, that’s, it’s also a lot of work in itself as we really come up with different ideas. And I know you, you mentioned about this, a lot of new product. You’re also working on the pipeline and what is, what is next for the, for your company? Any other project you want to share?

Mathue Ryann (20:15)
or

Yeah, we actually have five games launching this year. The first one is actually actively live on BackerKit right now. Two days left. This is a prototype version of it, but this is Hercules and the 12 labors. It’s actually a solo game where you take on the role Hercules and you have to work your way through the 12 labors and there’s lore cards. So it’s explaining what’s happening, but the illustrations are beautiful and everything is gold foil covered.

So really excited about that. So I’m starting a solo Greek mythology theme line just because I love Greek mythology. And that one’s doing really well. It has 1200 backers that have ordered it so far on Backerkit. This is the first time I’ve done a project on Backerkit. which was very interesting. I’m actually really like some of the tools that they have on there. But from there I’m launching meerkat kingdoms. Again, another prototype. Yeah, so this is before I turned into a

like Tiny Game Company, this was signed into development for quite a while. So this will probably be one of our last big box games for quite a while. But yeah, this is, you take on the role of a meerkat and you have to control the most valuable locations in the Kalahari Desert. It’s really interesting because we tried to keep the gameplay as thematic as possible to how meerkats actually operate. And I actually had the…

Jason Hsieh (21:28)
I see.

⁓

Mathue Ryann (21:45)
It’s a research center in the Kalahari where they actually filmed Meerkat Manor. They reached out to me and I showed them how it worked. And they’re like, this is really cool. And then the next three are these next three small games here. So again, we’re just continuing to support the line. So Prowl is by Kristen Mott. Space Potato is by Ammon Anderson, who released

Jason Hsieh (21:57)
okay.

Mathue Ryann (22:07)
⁓ Gnome Hollow, which is on the shelf behind me over there last year with the Op. And then Dragon Roost is by Chris Kingsnorth and Henry Audubon, who are responsible for some pretty big games in industry as well. it’s really exciting to get to continue to grow this. But yeah, so it’s an ambitious year with five game releases happening.

And when I say release, mean like launched on Kickstarter or some kind of crowdfunding platform. Because Hercules will certainly be here before the end of the year. Meerkat Kingdoms, the other three will launch probably in the summer. And we’ll to see what that manufacturing timeline looks like then, though.

Jason Hsieh (22:39)
I see. see. I see. For the Kickstarter launch, do you also do the launch in-house or do you work with companies like LaunchBoom to help you out with the marketing effort?

Mathue Ryann (22:48)
So with Meerkat Kingdoms, I’ve been working with LaunchBoom for marketing. and obviously, they’re kind of a do-it-yourself kind of marketing. They’re there to help you and guide you, but they have a program. You can learn everything and work your way through. Yeah, really, really enjoyed it. think as an indie publisher who’s worked with a few different marketing firms within the board game space, I think LaunchBoom is

Jason Hsieh (23:01)
Yeah, they were out of that before.

Mathue Ryann (23:13)
the best option for somebody to go down because it teaches you how it works and you can always use that ability moving forward. And like everything I learned from the Meerkat Kingdoms campaign, I applied to the Hercules and 12 Labors campaign because I was learning this last year was when I started working with Launch Boom and I’m still going through the program just because I haven’t launched this game yet because we ⁓ rebranded it and changed some stuff. So there’s been delays. But everything I learned in that program, I applied to my new game that has

Again, it has over 1200 backers right now, so I’m really happy with how well it’s doing.

Jason Hsieh (23:45)
Yeah, I think it’s a lifetime skill that you need

Mathue Ryann (23:48)
Exactly, so launch boom gets two thumbs up from me. I would recommend it to anyone that needs a marketing firm. You just have to have the time to do it yourself, but it’s worth it.

Jason Hsieh (23:58)
For sure, Yeah, and I have Victor from Launchboom on our podcast before as well.

Mathue Ryann (24:02)
Great,

I see him at all the conventions too. I always make sure to say hi to him. Love Victor. He’s a great guy.

Jason Hsieh (24:07)
Hahaha

So yeah, thank you for sharing that. And as we’re kind of wrapping up today’s interview here, what advice would you give to someone that’s just getting started within the toy and game industry for them to know?

Mathue Ryann (24:22)
I would say you’re going to make mistakes. It’s okay. I make mistakes every day. Still. It’s how we grow. It’s how we get better. So don’t be afraid to make mistakes. Like don’t wait for that perfect timing because it’s never perfect. Right. So you’re to make mistakes. Just accept that and you’re going to get better from them. But also as we kind of touched on, there’s a lot you have to learn and a lot of things you have to become a master of and a lot of things you have to wear your hat, you know, learn to wear a hat for. But I would say just take each one day by day.

Like don’t look at the top of the mountain, look at the step in front of you, okay? And take that step, and then the next step, and then the next. Because if you start staring at the top, you might get overwhelmed and quit. So just take things day by day would be like my biggest advice. Day by day, and you’re gonna make mistakes, and that’s okay.

Jason Hsieh (25:01)
Yeah For sure. Yeah, that’s a wonderful

Mathue Ryann (25:09)
Don’t be making the same mistake. That’s not okay.

Jason Hsieh (25:12)
Yeah, don’t make the same mistake over and over again. 100%. So ⁓ where can people find you online?

Mathue Ryann (25:15)
Then there’s a problem.

So most of my handles will be Envy Born Games. I have, and that’s ENVY, Envy Born Games. I have a TikTok, I have a Facebook, I have an Instagram. Those are the three most, those are the three I’m most active on.

Jason Hsieh (25:33)
Okay, I see. I’ll make sure that we put that in the show note for you as well. And for our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast. We hope you have enjoyed the conversation and find it insightful and inspiring. If you like what you have heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform. So you never miss an episode. We really appreciate your support. We love it if you can leave us a review and share the podcast with your friend and colleagues.

For more resource tips and the latest update we in the toys end game industry, visit our website at toys-launch.com. Join the conversation and connect with us on social media using #toybusinessunboxed. We’d love to hear your feedback and suggestion for future episode. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joy to toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast and we’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone.