How To Build and Market Your Own Board Game: Strategies from Industry Leader JT Smith

EP051_02-26-24_JT Smith

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Toy Business Unboxed, your gateway to the secrets of the toy industry. Here, Jason Hsieh, a toy entrepreneur and expert in the field. “Every product we develop is really inspired by some of the real life experience that we have with our son.” “60 percent of all toys last year were sold on Amazon.”

“Be passionate about it. Because it’s a road. It’s a journey.” “Like when you have an idea that you think is gonna somewhat change the world, make things better, I’d say go for it.“

Jason Hsieh: Welcome to another episode of Toy Business Unboxed. Today, we have a true innovator in the tabletop board game world, JT smith, and he’s also the mastermind behind several different companies, including Game Crafter and the Component Studio. If you ever dream of publishing your own games JT and his company make it super simple, [00:01:00] almost like a print on demand platform that is very innovative. That can make the first time board game creator to create a game fairly quickly and very user friendly as well. So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, JT.

JT Smith: Thanks for having me.

Jason Hsieh: Will you mind sharing with our audience on what inspired you to create the Game Crafter and how has that affect your personal journey in the entrepreneurial space?

JT Smith: I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole adult life. I’ve created 24 different companies over the years. So it’s been a lot but the game crafter came about actually I had other businesses at the time and I was, but I was making board games. I was designing board games and I hated the crafting process. The like I was using my inkjet at home and cutting out all the individual cards and that sort of thing. And I, just, It was so time consuming and it wasn’t game design. It was crafting, right? It was a different thing. So it was taking time that I was spending all this time and money crafting that I wanted to be spending on game design.

And as somebody serial entrepreneur like yourself, [00:02:00] I value my time more than anything like I can get more money. I can’t get more time. So I looked around for a company that I could outsource this crafting to and they simply didn’t exist. There were a few that had tried it before, but they went out of business. And so I’m just like, all right, I’m going to try this as a little hobby project. Let’s try to build a service where we could where I could get this done and I wouldn’t have to handcraft everything myself. So I built that and that is what became the game crafter. It took a while to write up all the code and we had through a long beta period of a couple of years where we’re testing out different things, but, it was basically instantly popular from day one. I think the first day we launched, we had 200 games uploaded, which was amazing, right? The fact that we got the word out so fast was amazing. And then it’s just only increased from there. We’re making hundreds of thousands of games a year now in the business as it exists 16 years later.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah, and for the listener that haven’t tried your software yet, [00:03:00] can you also walk through exactly what they need to upload, like how easy the process is?

JT Smith: Yeah, I’m sorry, I should have gotten into that a little bit. So the game crafter, we provide a bunch of templates for you, but you basically, you’ll design your game. Usually prior to coming to the game crafter you’ll come up with what your game idea is, then you’ll come out to our site and download templates that fit the components that you need. Let’s say you have cards, a game board, maybe some tiles, that sort of thing. You’ll download the templates for those things and design your artwork with it to match those templates. Now that doesn’t have to be finished artwork. You could do this as a prototype. It doesn’t have to be for a fully finished game. But you’ll design those components. You’ll upload them to our website. You’ll pick out some parts, maybe dice or pawns or other little chits that you need for your game.

And then you simply can order a copy at that point and, the kind of killer feature of the game crafter is that you can order just one copy. You don’t have to order thousands of them or anything like that. And so you order a copy, it comes to you in the mail and then you’re done. You can, of course, market your game through the game crafter a little bit too. You can put it up on our website and [00:04:00] sell it there. We have a crowdfunding platform built into the game crafter as well. And if you’re using the Game Crafter for marketing and selling your game, then all you’re doing is posting the game that you’ve already bought a copy of yourself. You’re doing the marketing aspect for it, and then what we’re doing is manufacturing customer service, shipping, all of that stuff for you, and then you just get royalty payments via PayPal.

Jason Hsieh: That’s incredible, because I think before Game Crafter, you couldn’t really order prototype of one from like a factory in China. That’s really hard to do, with a sample and all that. So that you really make the process for the new designer or the people that’s new to the industry a lot easier, and they can really test their idea almost on the fly, so that’s pretty incredible as well. And I think you also have been called the Willy Wonka of the tabletop of game industry.

Can you also talk about like, how does that nickname come about?

JT Smith: It’s, I dabble in a lot of things around game design and are in the tabletop industry. Yeah, [00:05:00] we have the game crafters there, I have a product called component studio, which helps you design games. I made a company called tabletop events a number of years ago that where you can go to game conventions because of that it organizes game conventions. I’ve made all kinds of we have. A subservice of the game crafter do experimental game stuff. So there’s all kinds of just things like that. And then that combined with, there’s this picture floating around the internet of me with a top hat and a cane and a monocle. And so it was like the combo of, I do all of these weird things in the tabletop space. Plus there’s this picture of me looking like Willy Wonka. So I’m the Willy Wonka of the board game industry.

Jason Hsieh: Because you have so many different businesses, but it’s all serving the same audience and the same community. And I think one thing you also mentioned pre interview it talk about like how a lot of the game designer is focusing on their game, but I think you also mentioned why it is very important to also market yourself as a designer as well. Can you also touch on that as far as the personal branding [00:06:00] when you come to the board game designer industry?

JT Smith: So it is important to market yourself in any business. You’re the salesman of your business, whether you like sales or not, you’re the marketing person of your business. You’re the face of your game and so it’s important to brand yourself, you’re going to be the one doing the interviews with podcasts like this. You’re not, your game isn’t going to do an interview. And you’re going to be the person out there representing this thing, this game that you designed. But the thing is that game it’s done after a certain point, you’re like, you’re marketing the game and it’s out there, but you’re going to create another game. So you need, you are the central point that moves the entire enterprise forward for your subsequent games, your subsequent products, your subsequent toys in your case. It’s all about as much as the business is about selling that product, you also have to sell yourself.

Jason Hsieh: For sure. And do you have any example of how the game designer can use their personal story to attract more players and also customers? [00:07:00]

JT Smith: Yeah, I think that social media really helps with this. If you have an Instagram, a blog, a Facebook. Whatever you have for your social media kind of thing, a TikTok account, YouTube, sharing your story of the process of making the thing is a great way to connect with an audience because it’s not only showcasing the product, but it’s showcasing you and your insights on things. It also allows you to interact with your audience as you’re building them. You can build a community around not only the product, but yourself. And so being out there, putting yourself out there, sharing details about your life and your journey of designing the thing, the game, whatever it is that you’re making really allows you to connect with people and promote the product yourself and have that kind of real relationship with people.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah, that’s obviously very important. What are some of the common mistakes that you see when the designer is trying to promote their game? Any particular thing that you [00:08:00] advise them to look out for?

JT Smith: Oh there’s so many, there’s so many pitfalls that you can fall into. A lot of game designers, when they first start out, they try to do something that’s way too big. That’s a problem, but that’s really more of a product problem than a marketing problem. From a marketing point of view a lot of people, a don’t try to market themselves they try to market the product and you come off as a shill. You’re just pushing this product and you’re not giving anything to your audience. You really need to give to your audience in advance to build that audience give so that when you have an ask they don’t feel bad about giving you something back. You also need to do that early. Don’t wait till the game is done. The whole process along start sharing. That way you have this whole history built up and it’s not a new account that’s just out there just to to shill for this one product. It’s there to talk about your company and your experiences and you as a person.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah, that’s very important. Just even if you want to do any kind of crowdfunding campaign, it’s very important to get usually two or three months in [00:09:00] advance of the campaign. So you get like an audience of people that is resonating with your story, the board game that you’re working on. It makes the whole process a lot more interactive. you’re really trying to build a community like what you’re doing within the toy, not just toy, but the tabletop board game industry building a community of people that are passionate about the topic. And you can only do that by being open and transparent and a little bit vulnerable, like willing to share some of your struggle, because not everything is the rainbow and unicorn when it comes to running and starting your own business in this case.

And I, know it’s also very overwhelming initially when you are starting and I think the platform you build really try to help was the designer in the initial stage to alleviate some of those overwhelm. But do you also, based on your experience working with so many different board game designers over the years do you see any other common pitfall where people get stuck on that they couldn’t move forward?

JT Smith: Yeah, there’s all kinds of pitfalls, as I mentioned before, with just designing [00:10:00] the product. We have a community, not just because it benefits us, but because the whole community works together to benefit each other. So getting yourself involved in a passionate community early. We’ll help you design your product. It will help you market your product. And it’ll also inspire you to design new products. For example, for the last decade, we’ve been running game design contests. We give out cash prizes. We get publishers involved to do publishing deals. All kinds of things. The most important thing isn’t whether you win or lose that contest. It’s to inspire you to make something cool. And so many of the titles that have gone into these contests have gone on to have great success. Because, and they weren’t things that anybody was thinking about as a product. It was, they were inspired by the contest. Now when you’re building a community, often like the things you can do are leverage communities that you’re already a part of. So if you’re building a game about a hobby that’s outside of tabletop, but the ho but the game is about that hobby. Leverage [00:11:00] whatever community you have with that. If you’re already part of a subreddit for that, or a Facebook group or a mailing list use those to your advantage to help you get through those kinds of hurdles. Also don’t get discouraged. It’s so easy. Jason, it’s so easy to get discouraged because there are going to be so many knows they’re going to be so many faux paws. You’re going to make mistakes and it’s so easy to be like, just get down on yourself and be like, Oh I can’t do this. It takes so many failures to get to success. So just fail faster.

Jason Hsieh: I agree. I think that was a saying. I forgot who say it. Failing forward?

JT Smith: Failing forward, yeah.

Jason Hsieh: So every time you fail, you get up, but you move one step ahead. And I personally also experienced multiple failure throughout my entrepreneur journey. And it’s not always a easy straight path because you’re working for yourself and you need to make all the right decisions. The other thing I want to talk about is also a very common dilemma when I’m interviewing people in the board game design [00:12:00] is either to go sell publishing or try to sell the idea to a bigger publisher. What is your take on that? And what is some of the pros and cons of one of those two choices?

JT Smith: I’ve done it both ways, actually. It turns out in my case, I don’t particularly like either of them. Which is interesting. I actually, like for me, game design is all about the design journey itself. It’s not about making a product at the end. But I’m rare, like most people, they want to get the game out into the world and that’s what they care about and since I’ve done both, I can give a little bit of insight into both. Obviously if you’re going to go self publish you got to realize that you’re starting a business and you’re going to have to probably wear all the hats of that business. You’re going to do customer service and warehousing and international shipping and, all the different things, accounting, all of those things.

So if that sounds interesting to you, then by all means, do it, you’ll learn a ton doing that, but it is a ton of work is, it is so much work but [00:13:00] on the other hand, you can go out and publish but there it’s a different kind of work because your job is to have meetings with lots of different publishers and get your product into their hands and build the products that they are interested in publishing. Remember that they’re taking a huge risk on you. They’re going to put up a whole lot of money and effort to get your game out into the world and they may get no return on it. So they’re going to be very picky about what they’re willing to take a risk on. And thus, that means you’re going to get a lot of nose along the way. And this is where you got to have that kind of stiff upper lip and just be deal with the no deal with the failure until you get a success. And it might take you, you might need hundreds of meetings with publishers. You got to be willing to put yourself out there and take that rejection.

And yeah, I think that’s a nice skill to have is to be able to take rejection and turn that into something that will give you a success later.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah, that’s the thank you for sharing that. And that’s a [00:14:00] really well put. I think either path is not easy, either self publishing or you go with a bigger publisher, either pass is not going to be an easy journey, but it’s really about like you mentioned, which one you, you feel like you, prefer do you want to talk to a lot of people? But I think one of the comments, I think I also heard from the people that I talked to is when you choose the publishing route, you lose a lot of the control as well, because they, can we also, can you also elaborate on that based on your experience?

JT Smith: Yeah, absolutely. There’s a, thing I like to say that when you’re running a business, you don’t make mistakes. You make, decisions have consequences, right? Like you don’t, the reason you’re not making a mistake is because you don’t know everything you need to know in advance in order to have made a mistake. You didn’t know it was a mistake at the time you made that decision, right? Like it turns out to be a mistake after the fact, but it wasn’t a mistake to make that decision. It just had consequences. So all of those consequences when you are self publishing are your consequences. And [00:15:00] so that’s the downside of being beyond all the work that goes with self publishing.

The downside is the blame is all yours. The upside is the blame is all yours, so you get to, make every one of those decisions. You get to be the person that said, no, this is going to be green, not blue, or we’re going to go with a giant box instead of a little box. Whatever the thing is that you’re deciding about every single one of those decisions gets to be yours. On the other hand, if you’re going with a publisher, they may give you, let you have some feedback into that situation, into that decision, but you don’t get the final decision. And likely they will be lots of decisions they make that you would not have made, you would’ve done it a different way. They will make new, all new mistakes and you’ll be like, ah, I wouldn’t have made that mistake but you know what? You would’ve you would, maybe you wouldn’t have made that one. You’ve been, have made 10 other mistakes. Everybody’s gonna make mistakes. You just have to be able to will to roll with that, whatever it is, because you decided in signing your game [00:16:00] with a publisher, you decided that they were taking the risks.

Therefore they get to make the decisions. And so you just have to be okay with that. And sometimes that’s even harder than taking a no, right? Cause you took a yes and now you don’t have the decisions anymore, but you know what? You didn’t have to do the work. You didn’t have to take the risk to get that product out there. So there’s balance.

Jason Hsieh: One of the follow up question I want to ask you, because you have done both routes. So how do you decide which route to go? Because is it based on the board game, the scene, or like audience? What are some of the things you are considering when you’re deciding on whether or not to go self publishing or work as a paper publisher?

JT Smith: So there’s, we talked about the pros and cons that that’s gonna factor into it. But there’s some other things that factor into it too. Publishers generally have a style of game that they make. There are they’ll focus on maybe Euros or something like that or focus on family weight games that have a certain look to them. Whatever the thing is. And [00:17:00] so there are only so many publishers that fit whatever genre of game that you’re trying to design. And if you can’t find a match for that, you might have to go the other way. Just because there isn’t a publisher out there that focuses on the kind of game you’re making doesn’t mean there’s no audience for it. But there isn’t a publisher that’s focused on that audience and thus that pushes you down a different path. The other way to do it is if you’re like me and you like lifelong learning. If lifelong learning is an important thing, aspect of your life, then I think you should go both routes eventually, but start with the public self publishing route. It allows you to it is a ton of work and it also, it’s a risk, but it is a worthwhile endeavor. It allows you to learn all of these auxiliary skills that you probably have never done and never even thought about. And you will fail at those skills. You’ll, make mistakes, all kinds of them. But that’s how we learn. We go out and we try something and we try to improve it the next time we [00:18:00] do it. And so I think if lifelong learning is an important aspect of your life, I think that self publishing is something you should do at least once in your life.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah, that’s a really good piece of advice because it’s just like you say, you’re really being an entrepreneur and you’re trying to figure all the different aspects of the business out. And by going through that, I think journey, it also helps when you’re negotiating with a publisher in the future, because like they will be going through some of the similar struggle at a different scale, obviously, but like the same struggle that you face yourself when you try to do self publishing, the publisher is going to face the some of a similar problem. That could become one of the objections they give you when they reject your game. That also gives you a way to counter some of their objections based on your experience.

JT Smith: Yeah, it’ll also help you when they make a decision that you don’t like. You’re having some context over what they’re going through. So I think that’ll make your relationship with your publisher better as a result of that. And that’s really important because these, [00:19:00] you’re effectively in a partnership with this other company when you publish through someone so understanding their position on things will definitely help you with negotiation. It will help you with understanding and ultimately just have a better and smoother relationship.

Jason Hsieh: For sure. And based on your experience I think every single publisher have different type of contract, but based on my understanding is usually like a percentage of the revenue. Can you also touch a little bit in as part of this kind of negotiation, what is a typical contract look like if people want to choose to work with a publisher?

JT Smith: There are some typical bullet points in contracts. Like you said, there’s a percentage of the sales. That you’re going to get there’s a term limits on things. So if a product isn’t in circulation for a certain number of years, you’ll get the ownership rights back. The contract will refer it to essentially. There are a bunch of bullet points like that, that are fairly standard. However. There is nothing that standard about any contract anywhere ever. So you need to read everything. You need to understand everything. There are different [00:20:00] percentage levels, depending on the type of game that you’re making, or the scale at which you’re making. For example. If you’re making a family weight game, you’re going to expect that your percentages are going to be a lot smaller because the margins on those things are generally a lot smaller.

Like a game that sells for 5 isn’t going to have a lot of revenue coming in on a per game basis. You make it up because it sold a million copies of the game. So if you’re making Uno, you’re not going to make 10 a copy because the game itself isn’t worth 10 a copy. Oh, yeah. But on the other end hobby games, which is what we’re talking about here mostly today or at least that’s what I focus on. Mostly hobby games have a higher margin on them. And so generally you’ll get a little bit higher percentage. So you might get 1 percent or something on a uno kind of game, but then you might get 5 or 10 percent on a hobby style game of the sale and when I say of the sale. I don’t mean of the sale to the end consumer because that’s not generally how it goes. It’s usually you get [00:21:00] five or 10 percent of the sale to the middleman, the distributor that the consolidator, that sort of thing. So if the game retails for 50, they’re selling it to them for 20. You’re going to get percent of that 20, not of 50.

Jason Hsieh: Thank you for clarifying that. I think that’s it’s called Keystone pricing in the industry and usually they will set a Keystone pricing of how much you want to sell it to the distributor as well. One more thing I also want to touch on is because of your experience in the hobby industry, is there any particular trend or like what you are seeing like right now in 2025 of what kind of genre in the hobby game industry that is?

JT Smith: The thing that everybody chases is whatever’s hot right now. And that’s a huge mistake. It’s a huge mistake. Because the thing is that designing a board game and getting it through the development process and then ultimately manufactured, shipped and delivered out to distribution that takes years to get done. By the time that your game is done and in the hands of consumers, it’s already [00:22:00] too late to follow any kind of trends. This isn’t a fast turnaround type of business. There are some businesses where you can create a thing and have it in the market in 30 days or whatever.

Jason Hsieh: Yeah.

JT Smith: You can make a small app on a phone and have it done in a week, and you can follow a trend very quickly with that sort of thing. But if you’re designing a board game and it’s got any complexity to it, and then you go through the pitching process, they go through the development cycle, manufacturing, shipping back to the US because it’s never made in the US almost never. That’s a year, two, three, five years potentially. And so trend, the trend, whatever your trend you’re trying to go after is dead by the time you do that. So instead of following trends, just make the best possible product. Literally that’s, the best advice I can give anyone. If you think that deck builders are really hot right now, so I’m going to make a deck builder. Just make a really great deck builder. Don’t try to copy the deck builder that’s out there that you think is really great. Make something new and innovative and interesting [00:23:00] about that deck builder. It’s not going to sell because it’s a deck builder. It’s going to sell because it’s a great game.

Jason Hsieh: That’s a very good point. Thank you for mentioning that. Because the turnaround, and all that. And that’s a mistake I have done in the past as well. I try to chase a certain trend and by the time we launch the product, the trend is already going downhill already. It’s not trending, it’s not selling as fast.

JT Smith: I have a couple of friends that chased that the fidget spinner trend that happened a couple of years ago and they bought a whole lot of them and initially they were making big money and then the trend died. And then they have a warehouse full of those products that they can’t move. Trend chasing is a very risky strategy.

Jason Hsieh: For sure. Do you have any other success story of the designer that have used your platform in the past and using your tool to make their board game like ultra successful?

JT Smith: Oh, yeah there’s a whole lot of different paths for that too. There are lots of games that have started out on the game crafter that just went on to massive success, hundreds of thousands of units that have that have been out the door that are going through the traditional publishing, even [00:24:00] one of mine, I started. Selling it on the game crafter. It’s called the captain is dead. I started selling it on the game crafter. Sold a few hundred copies, put it up on a Kickstarter, sold a few thousand copies, continue to sell it on the game crafter, sold a few more thousand copies. Eventually published that with AEG and they’ve sold then tens of thousands of more copies.

So that is a very long kind of thing. And that cycle has happened hundreds of times on the game crafter. It’s not just me that has had that success. In fact, there are so many games that are so much more successful, flashpoint fire rescue is a good example in the hobby space. They’re putting out they have a new kickstarter right now for a new, Legacy version of that game and that game was published on the game crafter originally, like in the first year of the game crafter 15 years ago, it’s still getting new releases of new titles. In fact, as far as I know, there’s a couple more titles in the works for that game right now.

Jason Hsieh: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay.

JT Smith: So as an example and there’s hundreds of games like that, that went through that process. There are [00:25:00] also games that are on the game crafter that are, that have never been anywhere else. And they sell thousands and thousands of copies. Just on the game crafter. The biggest success story that our audience probably knows is there’s a guy named Jason Glover who has a company called gray gnome games. He’s got, I don’t even know if it’s 10 or 20 titles on the game crafter that have each sold thousands of copies. That’s a huge success story to have a little indie publisher. It’s a one man show. Have dozens of titles that have each sold thousands of copies through an indie publishing source. And then there are more beyond that there are corporate kinds of sales. There are, literally games I can’t mention any of the specific company names, but I have one in mind right now where they sell this as an educational game to other businesses.

The game literally sells for 2, 000 a copy and they have sold, and they have sold thousands of copies of that. There are the gamut runs deep and wide, and then there’s also all kinds of people that have never gone into distribution. [00:26:00] They’ve just done kickstarters. and fulfilled through the Game Crafter. And so there’s just the gamut is deep and wide of all the different kinds of success stories that people have experienced through our platform through the years.

Jason Hsieh: What are some of the common threads that, or common points that you see from all the success stories from either your platform or the people you already know?

What did they did right? And that make it so successful.

JT Smith: Yeah. The first thing is just to make a good game, right? It’s not even good. It’s going to be great to be honest with you. There’s that good enough sort of thing doesn’t fly generally speaking, because you’re not going to get that word of mouth after the fact you’ve got the. You got the initial hype of, Oh, this has got great art or whatever. But if it doesn’t have replay ability, it’s not going to get YouTube videos made and more social media to keep the sales going year after year. So that’s the first thing is to make a great game. Other things that I’ve seen that, that work is start small, unless you’ve got lots of money behind you, you don’t want to you, want to start with something that is small and something you can build off of. So try to make a [00:27:00] 20 game, make a 10 game, an 18 card game a 54 card game something small and tangible and easy to, build and cheap to buy and all that kind of stuff, right? Make it simple. And that helps a lot for people to get their early success and then they can build off of that, adding expansions, building new games in the same world or just growing your we talked about how you are a product personally me. So if I have a reputation for making great games, I can start to take risks on bigger projects as I go. As I design more games, I can take risks on bigger projects and people will follow along. They’ll trust that my 50 game, my 100 game, my 200 game is worth that money because I have shown success after success.

Those are the kind of the key principles of finding success, but also the things we talked about earlier where you’re building your audience and you give to your audience over and over again, you give them stuff so that when you have an ask, they will give [00:28:00] back to you.

Jason Hsieh: Wrapping up today’s interview, if you had to share just one piece of advice with someone that’s getting started in the tabletop game industry, what would that be?

JT Smith: Get involved in the communities. I guess there’s lots of little pieces. Sorry, but I would say get involved in communities, get involved in the game crafter community or other online board game communities and start going to conventions. So the thing is that the board game industry is relatively small compared to other industries, there just aren’t that many players. And so building relationships with other designers, with publishers, with fans in the industry. Is going to be critical to your success and the earlier you start that a, you’re going to get exposed to a lot more games.

So you’re going to design better games because you’re just going to see more of the product that’s out there, but B, you’re going to have those relationships to get advice on how to run a kickstarter or how to package a product. What does it need to look like on the shelf? What is the, what are good photos for Instagram? You’re going to learn all of these different things [00:29:00] because you’re going to be exposed to all these different things and all these different people. And so I would say, get involved in communities, get involved in your local game store, get involved at, go to conventions, that sort of stuff, and do that as early as possible.

Jason Hsieh: That’s a really good piece of advice. instead of learning from zero, you’re learning from other people’s experience as well. So that’s very helpful.

JT Smith: It’s huge.

Jason Hsieh: Where is the best place for people to find you online?

JT Smith: The Game Crafter those three words, put them together, no spaces. You will find us everywhere. YouTube, Tik TOK. thegamecrafter.Com, Facebook. Every social media platform, blue sky. So we’re on every single social media platform, I think or at least most of them. And we also have our own website and all of that. Just go to the Game Crafter on your favorite source and you will find us.

Jason Hsieh: Thank you so much for tuning in this episode of Toy Business Unboxed Podcast. We hope you enjoy the conversation and find it insightful and inspiring. If you like what you have heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast and your favorite [00:30:00] platform. So you never miss an episode. We really appreciate your support. We’d love it if you can leave us a review and share the podcast with your friend and colleague.

For more resource tips and the latest update, we in the toys and game industry, visit our website at toy-launch.Com, join the conversation and connect with us on social media using hashtag #ToyBusinessUnboxed we’d love to hear your feedback and suggestion for future episode. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joys to toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the toy business on box podcast, and we’ll see you in the next episode.