How Board Games Can Drive Social Change and Inclusion

Jason Hsieh (00:42)
Hi, welcome back to of Toy Business Unboxed. Today’s guest is Stephen, a passionate advocate for the power of play. He’s also a host for the Spiel podcast and award-winning game reviewers and the driving force behind The Spiel Foundation, a nonprofit that donates thousands of games to organizations across the world. so thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.

Stephen Conway (01:06)
Thanks so much for asking me, Jason.

Jason Hsieh (01:08)
Yeah, so first, I want to kind of dive into your journey so far. What inspire you to create the nonprofit organization that you currently are running?

Stephen Conway (01:18)
Well, we started with the podcast, similar to you here. We’ve had a long running podcast. This will be the 20th season for The Spiel Podcast. And within a year of starting the podcast, which is a show about board and card games and the people who love them. We realized that we really wanted to kind of have a sister organization that would give back to the community. And within a very short time, we realized that we weren’t awesome at business.

but we were really passionate about the not-for-profit. So the Spiel Podcast sort of became the media network for the foundation and shifted focus in terms of making everything revolve around the not-for-profit and focus on the idea that play is such a powerful and positive force and expressing that in a lot of different ways, whether it’s through the media and the game award programs or the bundle program donating across the world.

Jason Hsieh (02:15)
Yeah, and I would love to learn a little bit more about all the different programs that you do as an organization. Can we kind of start out with maybe the world first and how it works?

Stephen Conway (02:25)
Sure. So as I said, so we have the Spiel podcast and the media network. We cover the world of board and card games through game reviews and our game award programs. We oversee two game award programs. The major fun award was actually started by my dear friend and compatriot Bernie DeKoven ⁓ almost 40 years ago. It celebrates games that are great for kids, families and parties. And then The Spiel of Approval award.

goes a little bit higher up the difficulty ladder. So it celebrates games that encourage thoughtful or strategic play. evaluate hundreds of games each year and select 10 winners. And then out of those 10 winners, we select one to ⁓ earn the Meeple crown, which is an actual physical crown that the winners win at the end of the year. So it’s sort of for the game that most exemplifies the spirit of our award to show that we take our award seriously but not

too seriously. That felt like the right way to kind of, you know, cap off each year. So that’s the media and the award program. The kind of cornerstone of our major efforts out in the community at this point is our bundle program. We started this in 2007. We use our expertise as board game aficionados to select and sort of cater bundles to organizations.

in need around the world. We started small in Indianapolis and then Indiana and then started spreading out from there. And now we send bundles of games anywhere from a hospital to a senior center to a homeless or domestic violence shelter, library or school, mental health facilities. While we’re trying to start a pilot program with prisons, in the last two years, we’ve sent over 18,000 games.

Jason Hsieh (04:13)
⁓ that’s a lot.

Stephen Conway (04:14)
Yeah It’s just crazy. I have 20,000 games in my garage and in my basement at this point. That leads me to the last chapter, which should be the big beginning for us, which is we’re looking to buy a building in Indianapolis as a home. The DeKoven Center for Play actually was out yesterday touring buildings. The building will be part warehouse and part community center, but there’s a lot of overlap with

hoping to engage and build a community that will wanna help the warehouse grow and help us be able to send even more games and host seminars and be able to show how play is such a powerful thing, whether you’re a young one or people our age or older, it’s a lifelong endeavor that can be part of anybody’s life.

Jason Hsieh (04:59)
Yeah, I would definitely love to visit once you find a new home.

Stephen Conway (05:03)
They’re open.

You’re welcome anytime.

Jason Hsieh (05:06)
Yeah, and I know besides that, I was doing some research on the website. You also created a documentary. Yes. Can you also talk about the documentary you created?

Stephen Conway (05:15)
Sure, sure. So I have a theater and a film background. And so I have a couple documentaries that we’ve filmed one that one is done Made For Play: Board Games and Modern Industry. We got a chance to spend nearly a week at Ludo fact, which is the world’s largest manufacturers of board games in Europe. And basically it functions as kind of like one of those how you how it’s made, you know, shows.

where we really break down all the different aspects of the manufacturing process and kind of demystify that because I think there’s a lot of people, you know if you love playing and you love games, you don’t necessarily connect the dots and understand how involved and how many industrious and creative people there are.

that are behind every box that you open up and enjoy. And I know that’s the same for toys as well. To just try to give people a better appreciation of how amazing that process is.

Jason Hsieh (06:10)
For sure, yeah. Thank you for putting together documentary like that. I will definitely make sure I watch the whole thing. I watched a little bit of it. I haven’t finished the whole documentary yet.

Stephen Conway (06:20)
working on one. My dear friend and mentor, Bernie DeKoven, was a titan within the world of play and games. And I spent the last year of his life as he was diagnosed with cancer. we spent a year basically setting up a studio and him telling his life story. And I’m hoping that will be out within the next year or so. that one, I’m really proud of that. And I can’t wait for people to see that.

Jason Hsieh (06:41)
Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, definitely share once it’s ready. We’re also sure to our list and our listeners as well. what are some of the like major impact you have been seeing through a lot of donation you’re doing through the foundation?

Stephen Conway (06:55)
One of the things that I realized after we started growing was the amount of impact we could have since we’re not sending to individuals, we’re sending to, a library or a boys and girls club that, you know, each bundle represents an ability to impact a huge group of people, whether they’re kids or adults. And we hear back from a lot of them, not all, but we hear direct feedback.

And we’ve had to adjust the program to some of that feedback over the years. And that’s been a very beneficial relationship to know that they’re valued and to know like a few of the times I’ve said, hey, I have a couple of thousand bundles. Are there people who would want them? And instantly I have a request list that’s five times longer. I know this is a need that needs to be filled, right?

I know that it’s valued and I know that it’s having an impact out there. It’s not a quantifiable thing where I can certainly check off exactly how many people, but I can, you know, look at, here’s the circulation numbers or the population of this little small town and know how many people go to this library and go, well, if that library has access, anybody who uses that library and that, you know, obviously scales up if you’re talking about a big urban area as well. So the reach we have is in the millions Very gratifying.

Jason Hsieh (08:14)
For sure. Yeah, that’s definitely definitely making an impact in the society through the effort that you do. So I know for my own toy company, I started a company because of my son. have some like personal, you know, involvement with my son’s autism diagnosis. Was there a personal moment that also shaped your mission with The Spiel Foundation?

Stephen Conway (08:36)
you know, I can’t point to an exact thing, but it was understanding the knowledge that me and my partner at the time, David Colson, you know, we had this rarefied knowledge, and we understood how, how much joy and passion that we got through play. And I think everybody’s been in a situation, whether it’s at a retirement home or senior home or

a hospital and you see the crappy copy of Monopoly that looks like it’s been run over by a truck. You’re like, my gosh. In many cases, those are captive audiences. You’re like, that makes me so sad to see that that’s the selection that they have to look for for entertainment. I’m like, you know what? That is a problem that we are uniquely suited to solve. We could actually do something in a very

direct and easy way and it kind of, guess if I had to think it’s probably me and my pal Dave, you know, looking at that and going, this is a problem that we can solve and let’s even if it’s just one hospital or even if it’s just one senior home and you know, look at where we are now. Holy crap. It’s crazy.

Jason Hsieh (09:44)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I know you have been in the board game industry for many decades. Like, how have you seen the industry change over time?

Stephen Conway (09:54)
It’s really encouraging to see, at least, you know, I’m based here in North America and in Indianapolis, and to see the industry kind of grow and it’s certainly not as mainstream as it could be, but I feel like that’s the trajectory that it’s on. There’s a much wider selection of games and a much wider audience that games speak to over the last 20 years. And I find that

immensely encouraging, especially in terms of, you know, the the number of the diversity and the inclusiveness. We have a long way to go. But I think there are many more people at the table and there’s, you know, many more companies and designers thinking in that mindset and thinking that there should be room at the table for everybody. And we can make games for such a much broader audience of people. If I had to point to one thing, I would think it’s probably that.

Jason Hsieh (10:46)
Okay, got it. Thank you so much for sharing that as well. So what are some of the project, I mean, you mentioned about the center that you’re currently working on earlier. What are some of the vision that you have for this new space you’re currently trying to acquire?

Stephen Conway (11:02)
Well, it’s really kind of the thing that will allow the foundation to take the next step. Being a volunteer organization as a not-for-profit, I joke and say, we put the non and nonprofit all the time. You know, fundraising is a hard thing to do. And so we will have a small staff of people to be able to have a community center with a game library that will have a play space.

that’ll be available for seminars and open play when we can. And then we hope to energize that community to also join us in scaling up the bundle program to be able to do. I know right now I’m limited only by my garage and basement. If I had more space, we could probably have 80, 100,000 games to be able to have an even wider impact. Beyond that, I know that we’re actively

looking to try to develop a network of volunteers that will kind of overlay and work in concert with the bundle program. So, you know, let’s say we sent games out, you’re in Phoenix, right? Yes. Let’s say we sent bundles to Phoenix and you’re on my volunteer list. It would be, Hey, Jason, we just sent a bundle of games to the homeless shelter and the, a library down the road from you. If you’re interested, here’s, you know,

will be the bridge builder between that organization and our volunteers so that you might be able to go in and teach the staff or run a game night for them because, you know, I don’t come in the bundle to be able to teach all the games. I understand that’s a huge barrier to entry, just even the rules. one thing I probably didn’t mention that I should have is that we take the time to punch and bag and prepare all the games so they arrive ready to play.

And that sound like, not so big a deal. But when you’re dealing with thousands of games, is hundreds of hours of extra work. That came out of feedback from the hearing back from organizations and, hey, we lost a piece. Hey, can the game work without this number of cards? And me these games need to be…

organized in a way that all the, you know, obviously pieces can still get lost, but you want to send them out into the world in the best possible condition, just like they were sitting on my shelf, like the one behind me. I send them out in the same condition so that people can, hopefully get the most benefit for the most amount of time. Those key elements, I think, will be able to grow. We also have started an initiative at conventions by allowing

designers who might not otherwise be able to be at conventions to demo or show off their new wares, whether it’s a very small publisher or up and coming designer, being able to provide space for more designers from around the world. We did that at Essen last year and we were super happy with the results and I know we’re gonna try to do more and more of that as well.

Jason Hsieh (13:50)
I see, see, I see. Yeah, that’s an awesome program. And how does that program work? So they send you some demo copied and you have a staff that’s demoing their product on their behalf. ⁓

Stephen Conway (14:00)
It’s a little it’s a little bit of both. We had my friend Casey in Nigeria. He runs a game game company called Nibcard Games and has a game cafe in Nigeria. He couldn’t attend us and so he air mailed games to my hotel in Germany and then we quickly read up all the games and were able to demo his games. In other cases, I hope with a little more advanced warning will have even more attendees. We had designers from.

Brazil and South Africa. Elijah John from South Africa showed off his game, Fin Master. So Fogner Da Silva showed off his game, House of Wisdom. So I think it’ll be a mixed bag. We’re happy to put in the time and to demo if people can’t be there, but we can also provide the space for people

Jason Hsieh (14:46)
10 by 10. How big is that boost space?

Stephen Conway (14:49)
We had a, let’s see, I think it was a 20 meter by six or seven meter booth. And I think we’re going to go 30 meter by seven meter. basically making it a third again as big this year, basically so that we have more space because I know that’s a, I think long-term it would be really cool if we had like, here’s the South Africa table and we could have different.

designers from South Africa. Here’s the Nigeria table. Here’s the Singapore table. Here’s the Taiwan table. And just have a constant wave of people coming to play and showing off their stuff. ⁓

Jason Hsieh (15:25)
okay, okay. And you just charge a fee to help them to do that?

Stephen Conway (15:30)
Heck no. We’re a nonprofit. That’s part of our duty, I think, and our place in the Spieliverse here is to provide services like that. That’s something that we can do. We can take the financial hit by having that booth because we also raise awareness and do a little fundraiser over to the side to help pay the bills. But we feel strongly like there are no fees attached to our awards or anything. We don’t want any.

sense of like payola or anything. Our goal is to try to promote play in as many ways as we can. And this is a way from the kind of industry facing standpoint that we can help people out that, you know, clearly, you don’t need it.

Jason Hsieh (16:08)
I see. But how can people support you? I know you also have different sponsorship programs for people to support your organization. Can you also mention about different ways of people considering supporting you?

Stephen Conway (16:18)
Sure.

So, I mean, we function kind of a lot like an organization like, you know, NPR or a place like that. So we definitely rely on, individual support. And if you go to the spielfoundation.com, there’s a big donate button that you can click right through and we’ll be happy and grateful to take your donations. But we also have corporate sponsorship as well. Throughout the years, we’ve had many, many, different corporate sponsors from Hubba.

to Bézier Games, Greater Than Games, one of our current big sponsors is Calliope Games. They’ve been a long time supporter of us. We have a coffee and tea underwriter, Many Worlds Tavern that donate money based on their sales to the Spiel Foundation at various points throughout the year. So we definitely have corporate sponsorship opportunities. You can email me for more information on that as well and I’ll send you.

Jason Hsieh (17:12)
Thank you for sharing that. And they can also donate their game to you. Are you still accepting like physical game donation?

Stephen Conway (17:19)
At the moment, I have to cry uncle because I literally like to be on the games if I took any more. I think Francie, my dear partner in crime might, you know, kick me out on the street if I took even one more game in enough is enough, she says. But my hope is that the building, I mean, the building could happen anytime. Once that happens, like back those trucks up, we reserve the right to like make sure the game’s a good fit.

for the program, of course, but I’m blown away by the generosity of publishers within the industry who want to work with us and know that we provide a bridge to a wider world and a wider audience that in many cases, these games are going into situations and audiences that may not know about the wonders of what we know about. And so it allows them to…

extend their reach and to allow people to have fun that might not otherwise be able to afford their games.

Jason Hsieh (18:16)
For sure. And usually you accept brand new board game right? Not used one, just to be clear.

Stephen Conway (18:22)
Yeah, yeah. Especially if we’re putting it in any kind of, you know, hospital or healthcare situation. That’s for kind of obvious reasons. We do, if they’re used games, one of the goals is I’m gonna donate the bulk of my personal collection to start the library for the DeKoven Center for Play. But that’s kind of our twist. If somebody has used games,

we’d love to accept them and have them as part of the library if it’s the same title in bulk. Sometimes we’re able to use them. But in general, if they’re very lightly used, we might be able to send them out again. But in general, yes, it’s it’s mostly new games.

Jason Hsieh (18:59)
I see, I see, I see. And I want to kind of take a step back, talk a little bit more about the award program that you have, because you’re reviewing so many different games every single year to give the award. What in your eyes, like when your committee, that’s reviewing the game, what exactly is the criteria you’re looking for? I think this is also an interesting topic for the designer that creating new games to see how can they make the game better as well.

Stephen Conway (19:24)
I mean, it’ll sound a little bit like a dodge, but I mean, it’s that ineffable, very slippery thing called fun, right? Hard to define, right? And it can come in so many different forms and have so many different faces. One of the main, we have a review team that they come over every Tuesday and I cook them a dinner and we play games till the wee hours.

And, you know, one of the things is to look for something that sets the game apart in some major way. There are a lot of games that are wonderful and, you know, but they’re all game design is iterative. Every game stands on the shoulders of the next game, but you look for something that has that spark that makes it stand out and different than another game. And that

that varies so much, Jason, from game to game. And I think it’s the same as like saying what makes a great toy. If everybody knew the answer to that, it would be a formula that everybody has cracked and there’d be a, you know, everything would be an amazing success. So it really comes down to understanding, I feel like very much like a book or a movie or other forms of art.

Like understanding what the game’s trying to say and who the audience is for the game is a really important aspect of whether the game you think really sings. And especially with like a major fun game, the wider and the more accessible that message and that song is that it can sing, I think the greater the chance is that it’s gonna spark that sense of fun and playfulness.

within the game with a spiel of approval game. It’s more about what hurdles, what mental gymnastics does it make me do? Because that’s where the fun of those games comes from a more mental place where it’s a more visceral, instinctual kind of fun that you look for in a major fun.

Jason Hsieh (21:08)
I see, see. Thank you for sharing that. And because that sounds like a very time consuming process to review that many games.

Stephen Conway (21:15)
I mean, it is, but you’re playing games. So there’s a lot of fun. It’s not, it’s not a small task to be able to have to constantly be looking at new games and, you know, evaluating them next to the, the, the game before and the game after and all the other games that exist. But if I didn’t have fun doing it, I certainly wouldn’t do it.

Jason Hsieh (21:36)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And as we’re kind of wrapping up today’s interview if you have to share one piece of advice with someone that’s getting started within the tabletop board game industry, what are some of the advice you’ll give them?

Stephen Conway (21:50)
Whew, well, in the current economic climate, I’d say don’t be a publisher with the tariffs that have just come down and everything. It’s just, I’m weeping by proxy for the American game publishing industry and trying to understand how they’re gonna navigate the touchy waters ahead. But I’d say you have to have passion and a sense of playfulness for

any endeavor within this industry. And I think that’s gonna be the fire. And don’t be afraid to ask for help because I think my experience having worked in other industries as well. There’s always bad actors within any slice of humanity, but I’ve been impressed by the amount of support and willingness for other people who may just be, if you’re starting down your path into the industry,

There are people who the difference between between you and somebody who like me or you who’ve been down the road is just time and experience, right? Yeah, I would think you would echo this that you’re more than willing to try to help people avoid the pitfalls that you experienced, right?

Jason Hsieh (22:56)
That’s why we do the podcast.

Stephen Conway (22:58)
Ask for help. If you don’t know something, look for resources. because we stand in such a weird place within the industry, I often may not have the answer myself, but I’m able to go, you know, hey, talk to this person, talk to that person. And that’s very, very, very beneficial to I think not being afraid to ask for help. And definitely make sure that it’s a sense of passion and playfulness that really is driving you forward. If it’s purely about the money, maybe step back and take a second look.

Jason Hsieh (23:33)
Yeah, it’s quite a bit of initial investment to start the business for sure.

Stephen Conway (23:38)
And I think the reward that you’re going to get out of it is going to be based on that passion and that playfulness and knowing that you’re extending that out into the world as much as it is you, you know, lining your pockets and, know, sitting on a big pile of cash at the end of it.

Jason Hsieh (23:55)
For sure, for sure, for sure. So where can people find you online and support you?

Stephen Conway (24:00)
So the clearinghouse for the Spiel Foundation is our website, thespielfoundation.com. But if you want to find out more about our media network and all the different game awards, our two sister sites are thespiel.net, which has all the listings for our podcasts, and majorfun.com has the listings for literally decades worth of major fun winners. And we’ll tell you all about the history of that award as well.

Jason Hsieh (24:24)
okay, got it. Thank you so much. I’ll make sure I put it in the show note. And thank you again for your time today to share the wonderful work you are doing with your foundation and the history behind it.

Stephen Conway (24:34)
Thank you, Jason, for all that you do. And I really appreciate you giving me the chance to talk to you today.

Jason Hsieh (24:40)
No problem. And ⁓ thank you for our listener and our audience for tuning into this episode of Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We hope you have enjoyed today’s conversation and find it insightful and inspiring. If you like what you have heard, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate your support. We’d love it if you can leave us a review and share the podcast with your friend and colleague. For more resources, tips, and the latest update within the toys and game industry, visit our website at toy-launch.com.

Join the conversation and connect with us on social media using #toybusinessunboxed. We’d love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes. Until next time, keep innovating, keep creating, keep bringing joys to toys. This is Jason Hsieh signing off on the Toy Business Unboxed podcast. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone.